Yet another track that is dead to me

[cmorioles]

Add Churchill to the list, raising takeout to max allowed in the state.

[Cannon Shell]

They dont care

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They dont care

I'm sure they don't. That is readily apparent.

[10 pnt move up]

I think they care, about what publicly traded companies care most about, which is maximizing profits.

Obviously not what we care about, or whats best for the sport. If they could charge 50% without losing money they would.

Why should tracks really care about long term players? I think thats archaic thinking and they know it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think they care, about what publicly traded companies care most about, which is maximizing profits.

Obviously not what we care about, or whats best for the sport. If they could charge 50% without losing money they would.

Why should tracks really care about long term players? I think thats archaic thinking and they know it.

This isnt about horseplayers or purses. It is about playing their hand to try to advance slots in KY. They didnt like the legislators recent ADW tax decision. They have seen a decade pass with no movement on casinos. Keeneland is putting in instant racing which CDI wont do. So they will simply try to make the racing scene as miserable as possible and return to Frankfort for a "fix".

Remember CDI is doing quite well despite the racetrack issues.

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think they care, about what publicly traded companies care most about, which is maximizing profits.

Obviously not what we care about, or whats best for the sport. If they could charge 50% without losing money they would.

Why should tracks really care about long term players? I think thats archaic thinking and they know it.

If Churchill was the only track in the country to bet on, I would agree with you. There are plenty of other tracks that deserve our money with lower takeout. What makes CD product so great that I HAVE to bet on them. PASS.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Add Churchill to the list, raising takeout to max allowed in the state.

Not in favor of raising takeout on my highest handle track by any means, but they did have the lowest blended takeout in the country. 17.5% and 22% still puts them in the top quartile.

[MISTERGEE]

HAVE YOU SEEN the way they have also run CRC. Is this a good sign? Over the last few yrs they have closed the 3rd floor, then the 4th floor , then the 5th floor where the turf club was, and then half the 2nd floor. Pretty soon they will just need a broom closet to hold the handful of fans they have not burnt off.

[DaTruth]

CDI and Louisiana horsemen butted heads yesterday in a Louisiana legislative committee meeting. When questioned as to why FG's infield screen remains unfixed, CDI's representatives essentially said why bother when nobody goes to the track.

http://www.nola.com/horseracing/inde...e_meeting.html

[Kasept]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6mpHW3SMcc

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Kasept

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6mpHW3SMcc

Tooz isn't winning any Academy awards for that seen

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This isnt about horseplayers or purses. It is about playing their hand to try to advance slots in KY. They didnt like the legislators recent ADW tax decision. They have seen a decade pass with no movement on casinos. Keeneland is putting in instant racing which CDI wont do. So they will simply try to make the racing scene as miserable as possible and return to Frankfort for a "fix".

Remember CDI is doing quite well despite the racetrack issues.

I think you're close to the mark on this. They know it will hurt the racing, and don't care. If it demonstrably hurts the racing and forces the issue on casinos, so much the better for them. And someday they will wholly get out of racing once their slots are on every CDI property. Stranger things have happened in the business world.

[Pants II]

The "jumbotron" is an eyesore and has ruined the overall scenery of that once great track.

The CEO is such a tightwad that he refuses to get his teeth whitened. I guess he made a decision that he will not take care of his teeth until he makes over 20 million a year like the other robber bar...err CEOs.

[robfla]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

HAVE YOU SEEN the way they have also run CRC. Is this a good sign? Over the last few yrs they have closed the 3rd floor, then the 4th floor , then the 5th floor where the turf club was, and then half the 2nd floor. Pretty soon they will just need a broom closet to hold the handful of fans they have not burnt off.

Yes, it's a shame. The top floor outdoor balcony at Calder was always my favorite place to watch a race live. Great view!

You now have to navigate through a maze to try and find a teller or even a self-service machine.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by philcski

Not in favor of raising takeout on my highest handle track by any means, but they did have the lowest blended takeout in the country. 17.5% and 22% still puts them in the top quartile.

I understand that. It is just frustrating to see the "raise handle, increase revenue" argument. It never works.

[MISTERGEE]

Originally Posted by robfla

Yes, it's a shame. The top floor outdoor balcony at Calder was always my favorite place to watch a race live. Great view!

You now have to navigate through a maze to try and find a teller or even a self-service machine.

Yep that outdoor 4th floor was a great spot and also gone

[ScottJ]

Steve,

You have been a voice of reason and passion amongst those in the racing industry for years. Eventually however, the time comes when a solid stance needs to be taken to send a message into the sport's leaders and their board rooms.

The Churchill Downs take-out rate increase boils down to a question of what is more important, [a] or [b] :

[a] The visibility and importance of the Kentucky Derby to the health of the game.

[b] Keeping the remaining players in the game (outside of racino/casino subsidies) engaged by providing the best possible rates on take-outs.

At this point, there are no longer any sacred cows in the sport that cannot be sacrificed for the long-term survival. If the Kentucky Derby were to continue without any audience ([a] over [b]), the event would not matter. Conversely, if the bettors continued to support events with lower takeouts ([b] over [a]), other major racing events can and will emerge.

Following this second path, perhaps the Triple Crown, a salute to an era gone-by, will be seen as what it is : a collection of three random races at three random racing associations. To underscore the point, why should California not include a triple crown race? Or Florida? Or Arkansas? If the Breeder's Cup can be called upon for a rotation, why not the Triple Crown itself.

My point is simple. With these increased rates, I will pass the Derby - first time in decades. I will pass on all CDI events - period. There comes a point when I need to think about my pocketbook first and send the message with my $100.00-worth of Derby wagers.

Now, to your role : Please push the envelope on this issue with your radio show and your connections. It is time that these continued rake issues gain more visibilility - and challenges - from the market.

Sincerely, Scott

[philcski]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I understand that. It is just frustrating to see the "raise handle, increase revenue" argument. It never works.

No, I agree. Might work for this quarter, when Derby money is accounted for, but the long term result is their top line revenues will not change for the positive. I agree with Chuck... it's political maneuvering to say "hey, look how bad we're doing! Our handle is down at the levels of Turfway!" to get the slots, which everyone in this state agrees we need except the ultra conservative bible beaters which hold back any sentiment of progress in this place.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Steve,

You have been a voice of reason and passion amongst those in the racing industry for years. Eventually however, the time comes when a solid stance needs to be taken to send a message into the sport's leaders and their board rooms.

The Churchill Downs take-out rate increase boils down to a question of what is more important, [a] or [b] :

[a] The visibility and importance of the Kentucky Derby to the health of the game.

[b] Keeping the remaining players in the game (outside of racino/casino subsidies) engaged by providing the best possible rates on take-outs.

At this point, there are no longer any sacred cows in the sport that cannot be sacrificed for the long-term survival. If the Kentucky Derby were to continue without any audience ([a] over [b]), the event would not matter. Conversely, if the bettors continued to support events with lower takeouts ([b] over [a]), other major racing events can and will emerge.

Following this second path, perhaps the Triple Crown, a salute to an era gone-by, will be seen as what it is : a collection of three random races at three random racing associations. To underscore the point, why should California not include a triple crown race? Or Florida? Or Arkansas? If the Breeder's Cup can be called upon for a rotation, why not the Triple Crown itself.

My point is simple. With these increased rates, I will pass the Derby - first time in decades. I will pass on all CDI events - period. There comes a point when I need to think about my pocketbook first and send the message with my $100.00-worth of Derby wagers.

Now, to your role : Please push the envelope on this issue with your radio show and your connections. It is time that these continued rake issues gain more visibilility - and challenges - from the market.

Sincerely, Scott

Scott,

Appreciate the passionate response to the situation but as Chuck laid out, this isn't the usual takeout case scenario. There's a much bigger backdrop to this regarding Churchill's long term interests in Louisville specifically and their unhappiness with the gaming atmosphere. They are a corporate entity that has made many successful business decisions that has resulted in a substantially enhanced value for their shareholders and that's their appropriate mission.

The state of Kentucky has failed repeatedly to deliver on their promise of an enhanced gaming opportunity for Churchill, Ellis, KY Downs, etc., and this is Churchill's message to Frankfort. It isn't dissimilar to how they demonstrated to the state and city they could take or leave Breeders' Cups when officials fully expected them to bid and host in 2010/11.

Frankly, they should be frustrated. Steve Beshear got himself elected on the platform of expanded gaming in 2007 and then could not harness the political power needed to beat out of state casino interest muppet David Williams. Meanwhile, even Ohio, which seemed utterly opposed to any gaming expansion was able to leapfrog Kentucky.

This increase sadly puts Churchill on a par with industry averages when they were below which is too bad. As with any 'price increase', as a consumer we have options to shop elsewhere. Beef prices have hit all time highs. Are we going to stop eating it altogether? Eat it less? The choice is ours/yours.

As we saw today with Santa Anita bringing back the rolling doubles, we can get messages across and get the desired response. Not only are the rolling doubles back, but they are retaining the lower 18% take. Churchill believes they need to do this to achieve longer term goals. They are fully aware of how it was sure to be received. Remember that there's been as many additions of lower take bets like the P5's of late as there have been assorted increases like this one.

[philcski]

The problem with Churchill's angle here is Steve Williams et al don't give a **** about takeout or what it means, in fact if you talk about takeout he probably would ask for Chinese. "Out of state casino muppet" is exactly what he is. He lives in a town of less than 700 people located more than 2 hours from the nearest proposed casino site. His constituents struggle for food and lodging, perhaps he should work on luring some jobs to the area? A damn hypocrite, just like Sheldon Adelson and his phony Restore the Wire Act bill and all the rest of the "conservative" party these days, preaching small government this and that and freedoms of the people. Freedoms my ass. If I want to pull a slot machine or play poker tonight I should be able to without having to drive 70 miles up I-75 to Cincinnati.