25 trainers urge Lasix-ban; THA says issue debated, decided

[Kasept]

http://www.drf.com/news/high-profile...port-ban-lasix

High-profile trainers support ban on Lasix
By Matt Hegarty

A group of leading trainers, including D. Wayne Lukas and Todd Pletcher, said in a statement released on Friday that they would support the gradual phase-out of the legal race day use of the drug furosemide, the diuretic that is used by nearly every horse in the United States to mitigate bleeding in the lungs.

The statement is likely to reinvigorate a debate that has been going on in the U.S. racing industry for the past five years without any resolution. Many high-profile owners and breeders, along with the Jockey Club and other national racing organizations, have called for a ban on the race day use of furosemide, which is also known as Lasix, but those calls have been steadfastly resisted by rank-and-file horsemen.

The statement said the trainers would support a ban on the race day use of furosemide for all 2-year-olds beginning in 2015, with a complete ban following in 2016.

“We believe it’s time to take a proactive position regarding the administration of race-day medication,” said Lukas, who was recently appointed to the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission. “American racing has always been a global leader, and it’s time to restore confidence in our game and in our international standing.”

In addition to Lukas and Pletcher, the statement was signed by 23 other trainers, most of them based in New York, including Bill Mott, Shug McGaughey, Christophe Clement, Richard Mandella, Neil Drysdale, Kieran McLaughlin, and Graham Motion. Many of the trainers are employed by owners who have supported calls to ban the race day use of furosemide. Many of those owners also pledged two years ago to cease using furosemide on their 2-year-olds, pledges that have largely held up at the higher levels of the sport.

The statement was released nine days prior to the Jockey Club’s Round Table on Matters Pertaining to Racing, an annual two-hour conference in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., where, over the past five years, Jockey Club officials and other racing industry officials have called for bans on race-day furosemide use. The Jockey Club has also begun canvassing the industry for financial support for a study that would examine the efficacy of the drug when used 24 hours before a race.

Opponents of the race day use of furosemide have contended that the public perception of the sport is damaged by its widespread use. Breeders have also argued that buyers in international racing jurisdictions are put off by race-day furosemide use, depressing prices for American bloodstock. Race-day Lasix use is banned in nearly every major racing jurisdiction outside North America.

Supporters of the drug’s use point to scientific studies that have concluded that furosemide is effective in mitigating bleeding in the lungs, a common affliction for racehorses. A ban on the race day use of the drug would worsen the condition, the supporters argue.

Although some organizations have put in place policies intending to rollback race day use of the drug over the past four years, including the American Graded Stakes Committee and the Breeders’ Cup, those policies were rescinded when it became clear that racing states did not intend to pass rules restricting furosemide use.

[Kasept]

Timed, obviously as Hegarty points out, to coincide with the upcoming Jockey Club Round Table..

Disappointing to see a number of heretofore staunchly pro-Lasix people suddenly turn up on this list.

[pointman]

What a great idea. There are too many horses running in the USA already, best to make them suffer and run less often.

[Cannon Shell]

Glad to see William Van Meter got behind this plan.

I'm sure that during his vast experience of 9 starters during his career has given him an excellent view on the topic.

I'm sure when Lukas came up with this plan (he didnt, this is a Jockey Club blackmail job) he thought I better get William Van Meter on board. Then he probably said that Jose Corrales is next on the gotta get list....

The Breeders Cup managed to have a press release ready on a late Friday afternoon ready. No mention of the carnage at one of the upcoming BC host locations though...

Not one trainer that I talked to knew anything about this. Of course Paulick is already calling others out for not being on a list that most didnt know even existed.

[Aly-Sheba]

Originally Posted by pointman

What a great idea. There are too many horses running in the USA already, best to make them suffer and run less often.

It's not a horse shortage on the west coast, it's a owner shortage. Unless you are a rich owner with deep pockets, why would anyone want to be in the game and pay $100+ a day training and the trainers just keep the horse in the barn, to keep their win percentage high. Plus lasix justs adds days to how long before runs back. Without lasix it might mean more horses will bleed, but without it, would that off-set how quick horses come back? I don't know, but it has to be a consideration or a study made. Back in the 70's I don't remember it being an issue that much, there were full fields in Ca.

I guess this means that Rick Violette will be coming out of the woodwork next week and will be on Steve's show, which means I will mute that segment, so I don't puke.

[Calzone Lord]

The lasix ban of the Breeders Cup' Juvenile and Juvenile Fillies has been such a smashing success.

The whole lasix debate is an epic waste of time.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Aly-Sheba

It's not a horse shortage on the west coast, it's a owner shortage. Unless you are a rich owner with deep pockets, why would anyone want to be in the game and pay $100+ a day training and the trainers just keep the horse in the barn, to keep their win percentage high. Plus lasix justs adds days to how long before runs back. Without lasix it might mean more horses will bleed, but without it, would that off-set how quick horses come back? I don't know, but it has to be a consideration or a study made. Back in the 70's I don't remember it being an issue that much, there were full fields in Ca.

I guess this means that Rick Violette will be coming out of the woodwork next week and will be on Steve's show, which means I will mute that segment, so I don't puke.

There is no bigger falsehood than lasix adds days to how long a horse can run back. While that excuse might be given by one of those guys wanting to keep their win percentage high but unless you are talking about running your horse back in less than a week for most horses it is bunk.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The lasix ban of the Breeders Cup' Juvenile and Juvenile Fillies has been such a smashing success.

The whole lasix debate is an epic waste of time.

It is like the steroid ban...on steroids...

[ateamstupid]

In a sport that's aces at focusing on minute immaterial bullshit and ignoring real issues, this takes the cake. Well done guys. Let's ban Lasix and still allow Rick Dutrow's girlfriend to move horses up 20+ points while he's on "suspension" without batting an eye.

I'm just so tired of the ridiculous facade that we give two dumps about drugging horses. Readthebyline ran a 108 Beyer under wraps off a 72 after being claimed, but Lasix is the scourge we have to get rid of. Give me a freaking break.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

In a sport that's aces at focusing on minute immaterial bullshit and ignoring real issues, this takes the cake. Well done guys. Let's ban Lasix and still allow Rick Dutrow's girlfriend to move horses up 20+ points while he's on "suspension" without batting an eye.

I'm just so tired of the ridiculous facade that we give two dumps about drugging horses. Readthebyline ran a 108 Beyer under wraps off a 72 after being claimed, but Lasix is the scourge we have to get rid of. Give me a freaking break.

How many horses died under Nevin's care or tested positive? It's ridiculous many of you just don't understand how good a trainer Dutrow(all of them) really are.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How many horses died under Nevin's care or tested positive? It's ridiculous many of you just don't understand how good a trainer Dutrow(all of them) really are.

You as an owner is exactly what is wrong with the sport. Being able to employ an alchemist to keep 1 step ahead of testing doesn't make a good trainer. As ATEAM said allowing Dutrow to train via proxy is an unbelievable slap in the face of the betting public. You want to ban drugs from the game? How about if a trainer is banned any horse's under his care at the time of the infraction are banned for the duration of the ban from the jurisdiction they are in. The only way we are going to get rid of the cheats is to hit them in their pocketbook. Owners instead of looking the other way would then have a reason to pressure these trainers to play it straight.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How many horses died under Nevin's care or tested positive? It's ridiculous many of you just don't understand how good a trainer Dutrow(all of them) really are.

While horses not Dying under Nevin/Dutrow's care is certainly a good thing, Isn't it safe to say the lack of testing positive is borderline meaningless, considering what they do and don't test for? Not that too many people even know what exactly that might be?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

You as an owner is exactly what is wrong with the sport. Being able to employ an alchemist to keep 1 step ahead of testing doesn't make a good trainer. As ATEAM said allowing Dutrow to train via proxy is an unbelievable slap in the face of the betting public. You want to ban drugs from the game? How about if a trainer is banned any horse's under his care at the time of the infraction are banned for the duration of the ban from the jurisdiction they are in. The only way we are going to get rid of the cheats is to hit them in their pocketbook. Owners instead of looking the other way would then have a reason to pressure these trainers to play it straight.

If I had horses again I would love to have either Dutrow train my horse/s and I would have a shot to win at a tough game. It's very easy to sit behind your computer and throw darts. Its another thing to have facts that substantiate any of the things you suggest. IF a banned trainer is helping his paramour to become a thriving professional from abroad how the heck can anyone discourage or abbreviate that? Imagine a dis barred brilliant lawyer who was disbarred for the same BS type stuff Dutrow was banned for and then consulted other less talented lawyers who were members of the bar same thing right? What's a judge going to say "Freddymo you couldnt have thought of this defense because you are a newbie idiot so it must be Cannonshell's training of you and since he is barred from law you cant practice is craft?

I really find it amazing how people just assume they know these folks are cheating but CANT determine or suggest how, somehow i just dont think that is remotely OK

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by golfer

While horses not Dying under Nevin/Dutrow's care is certainly a good thing, Isn't it safe to say the lack of testing positive is borderline meaningless, considering what they do and don't test for? Not that too many people even know what exactly that might be?

Its safe to say you are assuming a lot and have absolutely nothing to gauge your post on save good results by horses under Nevin's care. Is Motion or Matz cheating now that their stock is excelling or because they train for higher net worth owners and have "better stock" do we just say the horses are just fulfilling their genetic"sales ring" potential.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Its safe to say you are assuming a lot and have absolutely nothing to gauge your post on save good results by horses under Nevin's care. Is Motion or Matz cheating now that their stock is excelling or because they train for higher net worth owners and have "better stock" do we just say the horses are just fulfilling their genetic"sales ring" potential.

I think it's safe to say that you like coming on here to purposely be a prick-contrarian and ruffle people's feathers. Sure, trumpet the so called accomplishments of all the unsavory pieces of dung in racing. You're gonna mention to someone about sitting behind a keyboard with an opinion?? That's immensely hypocritical.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

If I had horses again I would love to have either Dutrow train my horse/s and I would have a shot to win at a tough game. It's very easy to sit behind your computer and throw darts. Its another thing to have facts that substantiate any of the things you suggest. IF a banned trainer is helping his paramour to become a thriving professional from abroad how the heck can anyone discourage or abbreviate that? Imagine a dis barred brilliant lawyer who was disbarred for the same BS type stuff Dutrow was banned for and then consulted other less talented lawyers who were members of the bar same thing right? What's a judge going to say "Freddymo you couldnt have thought of this defense because you are a newbie idiot so it must be Cannonshell's training of you and since he is barred from law you cant practice is craft?

I really find it amazing how people just assume they know these folks are cheating but CANT determine or suggest how, somehow i just dont think that is remotely OK

Thanks. I couldn't possibly make MY point any better than you just did.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by asudevil

I think it's safe to say that you like coming on here to purposely be a prick-contrarian and ruffle people's feathers. Sure, trumpet the so called accomplishments of all the unsavory pieces of dung in racing. You're gonna mention to someone about sitting behind a keyboard with an opinion?? That's immensely hypocritical.

I have the highest regard for Richard Dutrow, I am positive he is regarded as a terrific horseman and perhaps the very best at determining what is hindering a horses ability to run well. I am quite sure he has very few equals in this capacity. Moreover why in the world would anyone not like the work of his paramour, what has she done wrong, maybe she is doing the same great job as Linda Rice and the other successful people who have claimed horses from other connections and improved their running? Palace just won a G1 he was a 20 claimer, Big macher, that Moonshine horse,etc etc. Where is all the outrage for those types? Bottom line its easy to throw stones when you have absolutely no evidence why not save it for when people truly are cheating vs. doing their job well. I dont know why Matz who couldnt get arrested for years is successful again do you, I assume he is training better horses or refined his craft which is his job. I dont assume he is cheating. Apparently people like to discriminate when it convenient I dont

[golfer]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I have the highest regard for Richard Dutrow, I am positive he is regarded as a terrific horseman and perhaps the very best at determining what is hindering a horses ability to run well. I am quite sure he has very few equals in this capacity. Moreover why in the world would anyone not like the work of his paramour, what has she done wrong, maybe she is doing the same great job as Linda Rice and the other successful people who have claimed horses from other connections and improved their running? Palace just won a G1 he was a 20 claimer, Big macher, that Moonshine horse,etc etc. Where is all the outrage for those types? Bottom line its easy to throw stones when you have absolutely no evidence why not save it for when people truly are cheating vs. doing their job well. I dont know why Matz who couldnt get arrested for years is successful again do you, I assume he is training better horses or refined his craft which is his job. I dont assume he is cheating. Apparently people like to discriminate when it convenient I dont

Freddy, I'm guessing you either did or would have defended both Lance Armstrong, and say, Mark Mcgwire? No, I don't have the inside scoop, because as an unimportant, piss ant who simply BETS, I have no right to any of that information, as far as the industry is concerned. So I have NO CHOICE but to assume. And I will say this, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, I don't need a ****ing PHD to make the educated guess it's a ****ing DUCK. Sure, I may be wrong every now and again, but I'm willing and have no other choice but to take that chance.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by asudevil

I think it's safe to say that you like coming on here to purposely be a prick-contrarian and ruffle people's feathers. Sure, trumpet the so called accomplishments of all the unsavory pieces of dung in racing. You're gonna mention to someone about sitting behind a keyboard with an opinion?? That's immensely hypocritical.

that's the thing, every trainer, good or bad has friends, family, associates, acquaintances. and they will defend the bad to the bitter end.
not enough to have scads of violations, suspensions, getting caught whilst on suspension having contact with their barns, etc.
the sport needs cleaning up, but it's impossible. you have trainers getting HOF nominations, spending a year on the sideline for cobra venom and hired right back...why? because they're 'good trainers'.
there are good trainers, who don't have all the repeated overages, positives, etc. but some people want to win at all costs, and they find plenty of trainers that will do that for them.
some of us want a level playing field-others don't give a rats behind about it. and that's how these trainers get or stay in business, they have fans.

everyone saying they want a clean sport might as well give up, it won't happen. all you can do is wager accordingly.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by golfer

Freddy, I'm guessing you either did or would have defended both Lance Armstrong, and say, Mark Mcgwire? No, I don't have the inside scoop, because as an unimportant, piss ant who simply BETS, I have no right to any of that information, as far as the industry is concerned. So I have NO CHOICE but to assume. And I will say this, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, I don't need a ****ing PHD to make the educated guess it's a ****ing DUCK. Sure, I may be wrong every now and again, but I'm willing and have no other choice but to take that chance.

So I guess the ducks that were claimers toiling to run that were claimed like Sadlers two time G1 winner, Rice's Palace and 5 other claimers that went on recently to win graded stakes are all cheaters, because the horse are elite now...understood thanks for the update respectfully said