The strange death of Freddie Gray

[somerfrost]

Well, add Baltimore to the rapidly growing list of cities with a police/citizen issue. Watching the video, one has to conclude that Gray was in distress before being placed in the police van, his legs seemingly dangling underneath him while he could be heard crying in pain. A later clip shows him being removed from the van to have his legs shackled before being placed back in the van. By the time he arrived at the station, his spine was almost completely severed and he was to die from his injuries. the police say whatever happened occurred in the van but the video seems to dispute that, even so... obviously the injuries had to occur while he was in police custody. The preliminary autopsy, according to police spokesmen showed no signs of force being used. These results however still remain unavailable to the public a week later. Protests are growing daily and the streets are tense as marchers grow in numbers and to make tensions greater, police have characterized the protestors as a 'lynch mob".

[Danzig]

It is a very disturbing story. They chased him because he ran. And now he is dead. There was a claim in an article i read that says they only needed reasonable doubt, not probable cause, because of the area in which this happened. I have yet to look into that more, to see if thst is indeed the case. All he was found to have was a pocket knife. It also said he asked for medical attention almost immediately. I cannot help but wonder if four police taking him down is what caused the injury.

[dellinger63]

Lived and died a gangster. Court dates coming and still a switchblade in his sock. Never giving up and always trying to escape.

RIP

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Lived and died a gangster. Court dates coming and still a switchblade in his sock. Never giving up and always trying to escape.

RIP

Dell, you may be right in what you say, I admit that I don't know anything about Mr Gray but the issue is much larger than that. All across this nation we are seeing young black men dying at the hands of police, and with the explosion of social media, it's being caught on video or broadcast immediately via 24/7 media outlets. There is an unavoidable conclusion that mistrust of the police particularly within the black community has been simmering just beneath the surface for a long time and there is a danger of the streets of our nation exploding into violent protest. I am only suggesting that a problem exists and marginalizing the victims is not the answer.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Dell, you may be right in what you say, I admit that I don't know anything about Mr Gray but the issue is much larger than that. All across this nation we are seeing young black men dying at the hands of police, and with the explosion of social media, it's being caught on video or broadcast immediately via 24/7 media outlets. There is an unavoidable conclusion that mistrust of the police particularly within the black community has been simmering just beneath the surface for a long time and there is a danger of the streets of our nation exploding into violent protest. I am only suggesting that a problem exists and marginalizing the victims is not the answer.

We are also seeing young white men die at the hands of police, in fact more frequently than young black men.

What's really sad is we are seeing far more young black men and women being killed by young black men than by police. However many of those victims aren't being chased or pursued for crimes, real or suspected but walking to school, playing in the park, sitting on their front steps and even lying in their beds.

There definitely is a problem in this country but making police the scapegoat is absurd.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

We are also seeing young white men die at the hands of police, in fact more frequently than young black men.

What's really sad is we are seeing far more young black men and women being killed by young black men than by police. However many of those victims aren't being chased or pursued for crimes, real or suspected but walking to school, playing in the park, sitting on their front steps and even lying in their beds.

There definitely is a problem in this country but making police the scapegoat is absurd.

You're going to need to provide some stats for your claim about more white men being killed by the police than black men.

And more white men and women are killed by other white men and women than by the police, so I'm not sure what your point is on the second paragraph there. Though it sure caught my dog's attention.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

We are also seeing young white men die at the hands of police, in fact more frequently than young black men.

What's really sad is we are seeing far more young black men and women being killed by young black men than by police. However many of those victims aren't being chased or pursued for crimes, real or suspected but walking to school, playing in the park, sitting on their front steps and even lying in their beds.

There definitely is a problem in this country but making police the scapegoat is absurd.

Dell, don't you ever get tired of parroting the same old tired line? Yes, we all know the stats regarding black on black crime and I'm not scapegoating the police but you have to have your head stuffed way up your anal cavity to not recognize the animosity between the black community and predominately white police departments. You cannot disregard history and that history is full of lawless behavior by white policemen against black men, women and children. For decades, so called law enforcement folks were involved in lynchings, torture and abuse of power with the black community enduring same. Sure much of this abuse occurred in the south but it was by no means restricted to there. Today, black folks, especially young men, are still considered guilty of something if seen in the "wrong" place (code for upscale white neighborhoods). I worked in the prison system and was an MP in the service, I understand that law enforcement is a tough job and I respect the vast majority of policemen who do their best to protect law-abiding citizens but there is no defense for those who disgrace the badge and behave like thugs. Some of problems are simply related to lack of proper training but others result from racist ideologies and macho behavior. When police authorities refer to citizens as "lynch mobs" or "enemy combatants" it is not only inflammatory but an indication of a mindset that is dangerous to ALL citizens. We need the police, they protect us and enforce the law...but they are not above the law!

[Danzig]

Among those we do know were shot by police, black teens were 21 times more likely to be shot dead than their white counterparts.

“The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police,” a new ProPublica report explains, noting that if whites were killed at the same ratio there would have been another 185 white deaths, just during that three-year period, just of those in that narrow age range.

To arrive at this statistic, ProPublica analyzed the list of 12,000 police shooting deaths that were self-reported by agencies to the Federal Bureau of Investigation between 1980 and 2012. Because this data is self-reported and departments are not required to submit information, this data likely significantly undercounts the number of shootings. Florida departments, for example, haven’t submitted data since 1997 and New York City hasn’t submitted data since 2007. And the FBI asks only for “justifiable homicide” figures, meaning in those instances where the shootings are most overtly viewed as unjustified or the litigation is ongoing, departments are less likely to report.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

You're going to need to provide some stats for your claim about more white men being killed by the police than black men.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ut-minority-d/

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

And more white men and women are killed by other white men and women than by the police, so I'm not sure what your point is on the second paragraph there. Though it sure caught my dog's attention.

You're second paragraph makes my point. I did not mean a black v. white comparison but rather a police v. citizen comparison.

Your dog must be very intelligent.

I'm not saying police don't make mistakes and are right/justified all the time, but by and large they don't shoot down or kill citizens going about their normal day.

[Danzig]

and of course we know that prison sentences are longer for blacks than whites for the same crime, that blacks are more likely than whites to be given prison sentences...death row is also racially biased. those are facts....but some still believe race is no factor, when in fact study after study shows it very much is.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...04463789858002

that's just one of many articles on the subject.
people need to quit pretending there's not an issue here. it needs to be accepted, faced, addressed. note in that article that since the scotus ruling, sentences returned to what they'd been before the guidelines were adopted.


here's another:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/we...ater.html?_r=0

note the disparity of searches conducted...and so often, whites are shown to be caught more often than others wih contraband, yet they are still searched less often! talk about perception vs reality!!

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ut-minority-d/




You're second paragraph makes my point. I did not mean a black v. white comparison but rather a police v. citizen comparison.

Your dog must be very intelligent.

I'm not saying police don't make mistakes and are right/justified all the time, but by and large they don't shoot down or kill citizens going about their normal day.

"By and Large" ? Shouldn't we expect 100% of the time that they don't kill people who are unarmed?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

"By and Large" ? Shouldn't we expect 100% of the time that they don't kill people who are unarmed?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...y-shot-police/

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...IlW-yLGL1hAezw

'Bates, an insurance executive, has donated cars and other equipment to the sheriff's office -- and donated to the re-election campaign of Sheriff Stanley Glanz.

Details of Bates' certification began to unravel Tuesday, when Glanz told KFAQ radio that Bates had qualified with three different weapons — but that the paperwork had been misplaced.

The World says three supervisors were transferred after declining to approve Bates' training.'

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...y-shot-police/

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...IlW-yLGL1hAezw

'Bates, an insurance executive, has donated cars and other equipment to the sheriff's office -- and donated to the re-election campaign of Sheriff Stanley Glanz.

Details of Bates' certification began to unravel Tuesday, when Glanz told KFAQ radio that Bates had qualified with three different weapons — but that the paperwork had been misplaced.

The World says three supervisors were transferred after declining to approve Bates' training.'

"Oh I shot him, sorry." From the RESERVE 73 YEAR OLD COP ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

"Oh I shot him, sorry." From the RESERVE 73 YEAR OLD COP ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN.

with faked training and certification....
appalling. what's really appalling is the people who will say 'oh, no big deal'.
yeah, just a human being killed because someone was allowed to play cops and robbers.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by jms62

"Oh I shot him, sorry." From the RESERVE 73 YEAR OLD COP ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN.

Yea it happens everyday, don't you know?

BTW Baltimore has had 63 homicides so far this year with 56 of the victims being black (89%).

Police in all of Baltimore County have been involved in 2 deaths so far one being Gray and another being a 16 year old white kid wanted for a triple homicide in KY. Not sure either can be considered a homicide but nonetheless there are 2 victims who are dead. By why stress the 97% of killings not involving police?

http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-ma...s=Show+results

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...214-story.html

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Yea it happens everyday, don't you know?

BTW Baltimore has had 63 homicides so far this year with 56 of the victims being black (89%).

Police in all of Baltimore County have been involved in 2 deaths so far one being Gray and another being a 16 year old white kid wanted for a triple homicide in KY. Not sure either can be considered a homicide but nonetheless there are 2 victims who are dead. By why stress the 97% of killings not involving police?

http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-ma...s=Show+results

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...214-story.html

Because the topic is Police killing unarmed citizens that is why. Your citing of a statistic is simply Dell being Dell and creating a strawman.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and of course we know that prison sentences are longer for blacks than whites for the same crime, that blacks are more likely than whites to be given prison sentences...death row is also racially biased. those are facts....but some still believe race is no factor, when in fact study after study shows it very much is.

Current U.S. Death Row Population by Race
BLACK 1,267 41.75%
WHITE 1,305 43.00%


Death Row Population Figures from NAACP-LDF "Death Row USA (October 1, 2014)"

Since the vast, vast majority of death row inmates are in for murder and not because of race, it seems necessary to determine what the racial makeup is of offenders committing murders. Using 2013 FBI stats (the latest available)

Total Murders 5,655
Whites 2,730 48.27%
Blacks 2,681 47.40%

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...ender_2013.xls

So with whites committing 48.27% of all murders they occupy 43% of death row. While blacks committing 47.45% of all murders occupy 41.75% of death row. Doesn't seem to get any fairer than that!

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by jms62

Because the topic is Police killing unarmed citizens that is why. Your citing of a statistic is simply Dell being Dell and creating a strawman.

And your ignoring 97% of murders is simply ignorant.

BTW if you apply 'police killing unarmed citizens' as the criteria you want to go with, Baltimore has had zero this year.

[Danzig]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/24/us/bal...ath/index.html

A rough ride, eh?
And not a first, several others paralyzed in baltimore after suffering a 'rough ride' courtesy of Baltimore cops...frequently occurs, and they wonder why people are upset?!
Again, police are there to arrest, keep the peace, etc. Not to be judge, jury and executioner all in one. This is reprehensible.
The patriotic act, the NSA, the militarization of local PDS, and occurrences like these...what next? Why this constant assault on our rights?!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/24/us/bal...ath/index.html

A rough ride, eh?
And not a first, several others paralyzed in baltimore after suffering a 'rough ride' courtesy of Baltimore cops...frequently occurs, and they wonder why people are upset?!
Again, police are there to arrest, keep the peace, etc. Not to be judge, jury and executioner all in one. This is reprehensible.
The patriotic act, the NSA, the militarization of local PDS, and occurrences like these...what next? Why this constant assault on our rights?!

And in Florida, a 20 year old man paralyzed by a police officer shooting him. Apparently riding a bicycle while black is grounds for the cops to drive their cars up onto lawns in an attempt to stop said person.