Scorpion to turf,George to Classic

brockguy · #1 10-15-2006, 03:43 PM

thats what O'Brien says.. Scorpion had OK run last time out, first time in a year. George taking a gamble on dirt.. They really want to beat Bernardini et al..

Revolution · #2 10-15-2006, 04:11 PM

The guy who posts here as George Washington said GW is 100% going to the Classic. The decision was apparently made after the Dylan Thomas run, but they will release it this week.

Cover of racingpost.com

http://www.racingpost.co.uk/news/splash.sd

#3 10-15-2006, 05:05 PM

I thought George Washington was being pointed to 8 furlongs on the grass. Now he is being pointed to 10 furlongs on the dirt. Coolmore looks desperate to me. They need to work on breeding more for American dirt racing. Darley is going to make them look bad once again.

Revolution · #4 10-15-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bold Reasoning

I thought George Washington was being pointed to 8 furlongs on the grass. Now he is being pointed to 10 furlongs on the dirt. Coolmore looks desperate to me. They need to work on breeding more for American dirt racing. Darley is going to make them look bad once again.

He is out of an Alysheba mare. Alysheba won the Breeders Cup Classic. This is not a desperate move.

pmayjr · #5 10-15-2006, 05:22 PM

I think there is something to be said for keeping a horse where has the best chance to win though. He might fire a big one in the Classic a-la Sakhee, but he's too much of an unknown. I just hope Denman calls him "Gorgeous George" on BC Day lol.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #6 10-15-2006, 05:24 PM

I love this race call...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsqwv8jZI5E

Here is another...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtXXqIbtzKU

He is a fine horse, but I really do think that he would be more suited to the Mile for obvious reasons. In fact, I think that this horse could win the Mile. They are REALLY taking an enormous gamble in going in the BC Classic instead of the Mile. I mean, do they really think that he stands a chance against the three big U.S. horses at a mile and a quarter on dirt? Personally, I think that they are crazy for making that decision. If he were mine, and I was traveling to the states, he would go in the Mile. Of course, now that I have said all of this, watch him win the Classic.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #7 10-15-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah but he's out of an Alysheba mare, and Alysheba won the Classic.

Yes, forget performance. It's all about the breeding

Revolution · #8 10-15-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I love this race call...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsqwv8jZI5E

Here is another...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtXXqIbtzKU

He is a fine horse, but I really do think that he would be more suited to the Mile for obvious reasons. In fact, I think that this horse could win the Mile. They are REALLY taking an enormous gamble in going in the BC Classic instead of the Mile. I mean, do they really think that he stands a chance against the three big U.S. horses at a mile and a quarter on dirt? Personally, I think that they are crazy for making that decision. If he were mine, and I was traveling to the states, he would go in the Mile. Of course, now that I have said all of this, watch him win the Classic.

He has a chance. He is used to large fields too. Bernardini has yet to be challenged. It is unlikely, but he might not like pressure, and he is going to get some here. I still think Bernardini wins.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #9 10-15-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

He has a chance. He is used to large fields too. Bernardini has yet to be challenged. It is unlikely, but he might not like pressure, and he is going to get some here. I still think Bernardini wins.

He may have a slight chance, but it is a huge gamble. Why not go into the race that suits your horse's style best and the race that your horse is proven in on the biggest day of racing in the year?

Bernardini is a very, very special horse. I can't believe the connections want to run the talented George against him instead of in the mile. That must have been one heck of a workout on the dirt that he had...

Revolution · #10 10-15-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

He may have a slight chance, but it is a huge gamble. Why not go into the race that suits your horse's style best and the race that your horse is proven in on the biggest day of racing in the year?

Bernardini is a very, very special horse. I can't believe the connections want to run the talented George against him instead of in the mile. That must have been one heck of a workout on the dirt that he had...

There is nothing to be gained by winning the mile. I am sure the Coolmore-Darley rivalry has a little to do with it too.

The dirt workout had nothing to do with it. They were going with him once Dylan Thomas didn't handle it. Sounds like they were going to have a BCC horse no matter what.

#11 10-15-2006, 06:01 PM

It is a sad irony that George Washington was bred by the Jacksons of Barbaro fame. I can see Barbaro and Bernardini fighting it out in the Classic. It is just a vision never to be made real, of course.

King Glorious · #12 10-15-2006, 08:19 PM

I'm still not understanding how people are saying that the Mile would be the best race for him because it's on his best surface and distance. Did I miss his failed attempt at 10f on the dirt? How do people know that he's not a better dirt runner than turf and that 10f in an American style race won't be right up his alley?

#13 10-15-2006, 08:23 PM

This isnt a bad move at all. His stud fee isnt going anywhere but up if he wins the Classid. If he loses then it isnt going to decrease at all. I want to see him on the grass but I dont know how he will be on dirt. Apparently he worked very well on the dirt the other while working with 5 other horses. I think we might be surprised by his dirt performance.

pmayjr · #14 10-15-2006, 09:21 PM

So you're thinking maybe he might be the next Giant's Causeway? Hopefully without the duds?

#15 10-15-2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmayjr

So you're thinking maybe he might be the next Giant's Causeway? Hopefully without the duds?

Could be. I mean take a real close look at the Classic contedars outside of Bernardini. Lava Man is awesome in Cali but he has yet to prove he can do well outside of the state. Invasor lost a couple days of training due to a cold and he is coming off a real long layoff. Not to mention, it took everything he had to hold off Sun King. Contrary to popular belief, this isnt a real strong group.

repent · #16 10-15-2006, 11:39 PM

I like the move.
winning the BCM does not do a lot to his breeding value.
winning the BCC puts him in Giants Causeway territory.

can he run on dirt?
who knows.
no reason to think Sakhee would act on dirt, and he ran lights out.
every reason to think Hawk Wing would move up on dirt, and he never ran a step.
same can be said for Nebraska Tornado, Oratoria, and others.

its probably NOT going to work, but its a sportsman's move.

Repent

King Glorious · #17 10-16-2006, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmayjr

So you're thinking maybe he might be the next Giant's Causeway? Hopefully without the duds?

I don't know. All I know is that the Mile would have done nothing for him as I said a long time ago and others are now coming around to understanding. I do think that he's more of a 10f horse than 8f here in the States though. The kinds of horses to watch out for when they are shipping over for the Mile are the French horses. Horses that win the top miles in England have historically sucked in the BC. No winner of the Sussex or QE II have ever won it. The only winners of the Mile that won a group I/II 8f race in England were Miesque, Ridgewood Pearl, and Barathea and of the three, only Barathea was an English trained horse. All of that history was against GW winning the Mile. Horses that do well in the French 8f races have always fared pretty well in this race. Pay extra attention to Librettist and also Araafa if he comes.

tycharles01 · #18 10-16-2006, 01:17 PM

Mile gets

Aussie Rules and Ad Valorem

kentuckyrosesinmay · #19 10-16-2006, 01:43 PM

This is a rookie question because I don't know all that much about breeding value, but why wouldn't a win in the Mile increase George's stud value? Is it because he has already established himself as dominant as a miler on the turf in Europe?

SniperSB23 · #20 10-16-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

This is a rookie question because I don't know all that much about breeding value, but why wouldn't a win in the Mile increase George's stud value? Is it because he has already established himself as dominant as a miler on the turf in Europe?

Winning the Mile would only prove what breeders already know, that GW is good enough to win the BC Mile. Losing it would only hurt his value.

Winning or even hitting the board in the Classic would put him in an elite category and greatly increase his value. Losing it would have no impact at all on his value as everyone would just blame it on the surface and still consider him an elite turf miler who would have won the BC Mile if they had run him there.