Triple Crown Not Great For Horse Racing....

[munster705]

Before you jump all over me on this one....please hear me out....

I am as happy as anyone the AP got it done on Saturday (historically as well as financially for myself :0)). But I would argue against this being so great for horse racing in a long term sense. Consider this. The people on this forum....the people that truly care about horse racing like you and I will always be fans. The triple crown races draw in the bandwagon fans for 5 weeks a year. In the short term, this is great for racing. Horse racing is the lead story on Sportscenter. It is being talked about on the local radio stations. That's today. What happens a month from now? Nobody outside of the usual passionate fans will care anymore. That is the sad truth of it all. Next year when another 3 year old wins the Kentucky Derby, there will not be the same buzz about the Triple Crown because it only happened a year ago.

I can make the comparison to my favorite baseball team, the Boston Red Sox in 2004. After 86 years, we finally won the World Series. Boston partied like crazy. We nmever thought we would see the day. And now, there simply is not the same passion as it used to be. I fear that this will be true for Horse Racing.

[pointman]

How can anyone take this seriously when it starts out with a redboard on a 3/5 shot?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pointman

How can anyone take this seriously when it starts out with a redboard on a 3/5 shot?

no, there won't be the same buzz next year, but as years go by, it'll build again.
and for however many who don't tune in, others will keep following because they got hooked by a horse, or a fan, or a bet.

[joeydb]

Ever hear of the Scientific Method?

It's a technique for experimentation where you hold all other things constant to measure the effect of the one variable being studied.

So, when you see the state of horse racing in 2015 as a constant, and the variable is whether or not we had a Triple Crown winner, are you going to assert that having it is no better than not having it?

I think not.

As you pointed out, at least there was attention and interest. Some of that will carry over. Even more so if American Pharoah goes to the Haskell as announced today, and hopefully the Travers and Breeders' Cup Classic. He'll be in the news again and people will be interested. Imagine if he wins the Haskell and Travers? The Breeders' Cup could be huge.

Not trying to be critical, but you had to really bend that curve to make the Triple Crown success into a negative for horse racing. It didn't matter what the inputs were - the answer was negative. f(x) = "pessimism".

[munster705]

If AP continues to race then obviously his races will carry a huge following. The fact of the matter is there are tracks across the country that are still going to be closing (Suffolk Downs in my backyard to name one). The same battles that the sport had last week are still there now. This is a great short term boost, I agree with all of that....but long term this will wear off and the same challenges will remain.

BTW on the redboard...it wasn't intended to be serious. Just making a funny little side note so please don't take that the wrong way.

If you must know $20 trifecta paid $1,095.00

Is a regular season game with Milwaukee Bucks vs Charlotte Hornets on a Tuesday in February draws much attention?

No one tunes in to the NBA until late in the playoffs and NBA finals.....5 weeks in a given year.

[munster705]

Are the Milwaukee Bucks being contracted out of the league? Making the comparison between the NBA and Horse Racing is a bit absurd. One is a big 4 sport and the other most people don't even consider a sport. My main point is that I think (and I really hope I am wrong) that Horse Racing is on a slow but certain decline. I remember not too long ago when I would attend MassCap day at Suffolk Downs and it would be standing room only. I got to see Cigar in person. And now the place is about to be boarded up....no live racing anymore. I would imagine that this problem is the same around the country...not at the big tracks but at the little ones where the money is running dry. The sport is not thriving enough to keep the little guys alive. So as we all baske in the glory of AP, the fact of the matter is that it really does not make a difference to the sport long term.

Originally Posted by munster705

Are the Milwaukee Bucks being contracted out of the league? Making the comparison between the NBA and Horse Racing is a bit absurd. One is a big 4 sport and the other most people don't even consider a sport. My main point is that I think (and I really hope I am wrong) that Horse Racing is on a slow but certain decline. I remember not too long ago when I would attend MassCap day at Suffolk Downs and it would be standing room only. I got to see Cigar in person. And now the place is about to be boarded up....no live racing anymore. I would imagine that this problem is the same around the country...not at the big tracks but at the little ones where the money is running dry. The sport is not thriving enough to keep the little guys alive. So as we all baske in the glory of AP, the fact of the matter is that it really does not make a difference to the sport long term.

Was suffolk downs good for racing? Mass Cap in recent years was as insignificant as they come. Times change....adapt and move on

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by munster705

If AP continues to race then obviously his races will carry a huge following. The fact of the matter is there are tracks across the country that are still going to be closing (Suffolk Downs in my backyard to name one). The same battles that the sport had last week are still there now. This is a great short term boost, I agree with all of that....but long term this will wear off and the same challenges will remain.

Of course they will. There are problems that need to be addressed, changes that need to be made. Maybe some tracks need to close... it might make more sense to kind of streamline racing and offer a better product.

Cheaters still cheat, suspensions are still a joke BUT we finally have all of THIS and you choose to, not find a negative but search one out and rip it out of nowhere? Why? For what?

Sorry... do not know you at all and I mean no disrespect but I don't get it (and I don't agree. Simple mathematics... some (not a lot but some) of the people exposed WILL become fans / bettors. I would imagine anyway).

You can choose to go through life appreciating the good, searching for what is right, being joyous, finding beauty OR you can be the other kind of person. It's really a choice.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by munster705

Before you jump all over me on this one....please hear me out....

I am as happy as anyone the AP got it done on Saturday (historically as well as financially for myself :0)). But I would argue against this being so great for horse racing in a long term sense. Consider this. The people on this forum....the people that truly care about horse racing like you and I will always be fans. The triple crown races draw in the bandwagon fans for 5 weeks a year. In the short term, this is great for racing. Horse racing is the lead story on Sportscenter. It is being talked about on the local radio stations. That's today. What happens a month from now? Nobody outside of the usual passionate fans will care anymore. That is the sad truth of it all. Next year when another 3 year old wins the Kentucky Derby, there will not be the same buzz about the Triple Crown because it only happened a year ago.

I can make the comparison to my favorite baseball team, the Boston Red Sox in 2004. After 86 years, we finally won the World Series. Boston partied like crazy. We nmever thought we would see the day. And now, there simply is not the same passion as it used to be. I fear that this will be true for Horse Racing.

Originally Posted by munster705

Are the Milwaukee Bucks being contracted out of the league? Making the comparison between the NBA and Horse Racing is a bit absurd. One is a big 4 sport and the other most people don't even consider a sport. My main point is that I think (and I really hope I am wrong) that Horse Racing is on a slow but certain decline. I remember not too long ago when I would attend MassCap day at Suffolk Downs and it would be standing room only. I got to see Cigar in person. And now the place is about to be boarded up....no live racing anymore. I would imagine that this problem is the same around the country...not at the big tracks but at the little ones where the money is running dry. The sport is not thriving enough to keep the little guys alive. So as we all baske in the glory of AP, the fact of the matter is that it really does not make a difference to the sport long term.

Funny cause reading your two posts you say two different things. Saying this isn't good for horse racing is really is crazy.

[10 pnt move up]

Its good for racing but it doesnt really make any long term difference....and one could argue it definitely will take away from the Triple Crown in the future.

[King Glorious]

The key lies in what they do next with AP. If he runs again, it will be a big event and fringe fans will tune in. If he doesn't, this will end up being a blip on the non racing fan radar. We'll remember it forever. Non racing fans won't.

You look at other sports like the Olympics and the World Cup. These events draw on the popularity gained during their signature events. People will tune in to watch a track meet featuring Usain Bolt but if they find out he's not running, they are tuning out.

Sponsors caught on big with the Belmont Stakes.Draft Kings, Burger King, Monster Energy etc.

NAASCAR is a bunch of cars repeadetdly going in circles with no betting involved but thier events are huge and sponsors pour in the big money. If Horse racing can continue getting real sponsors (not Pat's Horse Pellets), it can be bigger than NAASCAR.

[Arletta]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Sponsors caught on big with the Belmont Stakes.Draft Kings, Burger King, Monster Energy etc.

NAASCAR is a bunch of cars repeadetdly going in circles with no betting involved but thier events are huge and sponsors pour in the big money. If Horse racing can continue getting real sponsors (not Pat's Horse Pellets), it can be bigger than NAASCAR.

No way

[dellinger63]

I can only speak on my personal experience and say numerous people I know who were completely indifferent to horse racing tuned in and became fans albeit, not sure whether permanent, all because of AP and the Triple Crown. More than a few plan to visit Arlington this year, which can't be bad for the sport. My entire collection of racing/handicapping books are out on loan and I've taught about a dozen on how to read a racing form, leading into the Belmont. A few have even signed up for Derbywars and some are now tuning into ATRAB daily.

Point is if other's have had a similar experience to what I have, AP winning the triple crown was undoubtedly good for the sport and may have slowed the decline just a bit.

[CheekyBird]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I can only speak on my personal experience and say numerous people I know who were completely indifferent to horse racing tuned in and became fans albeit, not sure whether permanent, all because of AP and the Triple Crown. More than a few plan to visit Arlington this year, which can't be bad for the sport. My entire collection of racing/handicapping books are out on loan and I've taught about a dozen on how to read a racing form, leading into the Belmont. A few have even signed up for Derbywars and some are now tuning into ATRAB daily.

Point is if other's have had a similar experience to what I have, AP winning the triple crown was undoubtedly good for the sport and may have slowed the decline just a bit.

This is a topic of conversation that interests me tremendously. Not only because I have come to love the game/sport, but I am also a marketing consultant.

I have been following horse racing since 2011. I am a 30-something (read: desired/targeted demographic). I was first introduced to the Triple Crown at a Preakness fundraising event some 10 years ago, and have held or attended Triple Crown parties off and on through the years.

I had no idea what went on in the horse racing world between the Derby, Preakness and Belmont. I wasn't curious, and I didn't care. As a 20-30 something year old, other activities occupied my interest. But I loved the pomp and circumstance of horse racing when those three events occurred, and the events helped me raise a lot of money for my charitable organization.

I had "for fun" wagering opportunities at the parties (which was basically picking who we thought was going to win). However, the first fundraising event I mentioned above was at Pimlico, but I don't recall wagering on anything, and there certainly wasn't anyone in our group who knew anything about how to bet.

Fast forward to 2011 where, at a casino that was showing the Derby in the "sportsbook" lounge, my hubby and I, on a whim, decided to bet the Derby. We were given a quick primer by one of the cashiers on how to bet: Win, Place, Show, Trifecta & Superfecta. We were flush with slot machine money, so we bet a ridiculous amount of money on to win, and a trifecta box. We scored! Big time!! Beginners/dumb luck, but I thought... Geez, what an easy and fun way to make a lot of money. Ha!

For brevity's sake, here's the reason for my post. In the hopes of attracting my peers to the game, and with the excitement of the triple crown hopes this year, I held a Derby, Preakness and Belmont party. Here's what I observed:

1. While our buddies were interested in the Triple Crown chase, they knew nothing about the rest of the field in any of the races, except for the favorite. I did do some explaining of the points system.

2. There was very little interest in the wagering aspect, even when shown how much these races had paid in the past, and provided little cheat sheets that I had put together on how to wager.

3. They found the NBC coverage very enjoyable, especially the food/drink traditions, and seeing sports celebrities (particularly) at the Derby.

4. My Belmont party this past Saturday was held at the casino. We reserved several tables and it was extremely festive. The only drawback was that we had NYRA coverage on the TVs, not NBC coverage. So, I could sense some boredom since there was no "pomp and circumstance" to be seen. F/more, the coverage was not in HD. Very disappointing. Also, wagering lines were extremely long with "regulars" betting on other races.

5. Hubby and I had to field a lot of questions like "What is MTP?"

6. I can tell you that the atmosphere in the casino was electric once the race began. People abandoned their slot machines to find a TV. And then the applause at the end of the race. WOW!!! Just WOW!!!

7. And then it was over. Our friends expressed no further interest in the rest of the card, nor did they express curiosity about the races on at other tracks being displayed on other monitors. Off they went to the slots and the table games while remarking how fantastic it was to witness history.

8. Of our group, there was one couple that stuck around with hubby and I for the remainder of the card. It was a couple that had won the $2 superfecta in the big race.

Moral of this story? Win and you're "in!"

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Ever hear of the Scientific Method?

It's a technique for experimentation where you hold all other things constant to measure the effect of the one variable being studied.

So, when you see the state of horse racing in 2015 as a constant, and the variable is whether or not we had a Triple Crown winner, are you going to assert that having it is no better than not having it?

I think not.

As you pointed out, at least there was attention and interest. Some of that will carry over. Even more so if American Pharoah goes to the Haskell as announced today, and hopefully the Travers and Breeders' Cup Classic. He'll be in the news again and people will be interested. Imagine if he wins the Haskell and Travers? The Breeders' Cup could be huge.

Not trying to be critical, but you had to really bend that curve to make the Triple Crown success into a negative for horse racing. It didn't matter what the inputs were - the answer was negative. f(x) = "pessimism".

the only negatives are that for the next year or two, some interest may wane...but i'd imagine that a lot of people will still go to the belmont if the tc is on the line, everyone wants to be a witness to history. the big help to the belmont, is the derby winner taking the preakness. that is more of an effect than how long ago the tc was won.
the other real negative is just regarding the one horse-it's been so long, that we all know he's going to be rushed to retirement like secretariat, and not run longer like the two who followed in 77 and 78.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Sponsors caught on big with the Belmont Stakes.Draft Kings, Burger King, Monster Energy etc.

NAASCAR is a bunch of cars repeadetdly going in circles with no betting involved but thier events are huge and sponsors pour in the big money. If Horse racing can continue getting real sponsors (not Pat's Horse Pellets), it can be bigger than NAASCAR.

maybe eventually. nascar keeps going south...so anything could happen. between the two, i'd rather get my ass beaten than have to watch a nascar race.
did watch the f-1 from montreal the other day tho...but 70 laps is a lot easier to stick to.

[GenuineRisk]

All I know is that I'm mentoring a STEM teaching thing this week, and when I asked the kids if they'd seen the Belmont, a third of the hands went up and they were excited to talk about it. These are 1st, 2nd and 3rd graders.

[ghartman02]

I grew up in Horse Racing, my Dad owned them, and all I really cared about was our horses. Then in 1969 I went to the KY Derby for the first time and fell in love (also went to Keeneland and did the same). Then in 1973, I saw Secretariat win the Derby, and when he won the Belmont I became a fan. So who knows what this will do. Can you get excited in the 4th race at Monmouth on a Friday? No, but you can love the horse and betting. I'm not a hot shot gambler. However, I love the sport and often times I break even. Example: I can go to a Cincinnati Reds game and drop $30 for a ticket, $30 for a couple of beers, maybe a dog and a drink and my day is $70 or so. I can go to the track and I can spend $70. At the Reds game my wallet is empty, but at the track, even if I come home with $50, the day cost me $20 and on a day like BlueGrass Day at Keeneland, that's cool. If I win a few, and I come home with $80, I got paid $10 to go to the track! In 1977, Poor Seattle Slew was kinda boring so he didn't get the press (until later), and 1978 Affirmed had Alydar which made that thrilling. Hopefully with smart marketing, and knocking of heads the sport can be the great sport it is...we just got to get people to find out about it!