Gov Haley demands rebel flag removal

[somerfrost]

South Carolina Gov Nikki Haley flanked by politicians from both parties, today demanded that state lawmakers remove the confederate flag from statehouse grounds....better late than never, obviously the church murders played a role in her about-face....I respect folk's right to have an opinion but those of us who served in the military saluted and respected the American flag and the Civil War is long over.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

South Carolina Gov Nikki Haley flanked by politicians from both parties, today demanded that state lawmakers remove the confederate flag from statehouse grounds....better late than never, obviously the church murders played a role in her about-face....I respect folk's right to have an opinion but those of us who served in the military saluted and respected the American flag and the Civil War is long over.

I will always support an individuals right to free speech in all forms, even what I consider the most virulent-like westboro and the kkk.
but I have always disagreed with that flag having any place on any government building or site. it is anything but patriotic to fly it.
I can't help that some didn't learn their history, or heard some revisionist claptrap, or that some wish to fly it knowing full well what it represents. that's their business.
better late than never, that she and others have spoken up now. and shame on those cowards running for higher office who won't say what's right--at least, not til the polls show they should.(looking at you, huckster, and you, santorum, who have no issue speaking up on other issues that states have decided upon.).
maybe next those states can rethink monuments to Forrest in Selma, statues of wade Hampton, whose post war behavior was worse than when he fought to keep his slaves, and others like them. leave the markers on the battlefields and museums, but quit trying to create heroes out of people that were anything but.
no government property, who is supposed to serve all, should be celebrating a time when their forbears tried to tear this country apart.

[Danzig]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT



"It has become a distraction all over the country right now," Bentley said. The iconic Confederate battle flag in particular "is offensive to some people because unfortunately, it's like the swastika; some people have adopted that as part of their hate-filled groups."

altho i agree that the flag should not be flown on public property, the above isn't correct. the flag has always been a symbol of racism and white supremacy in this country.
now, other hate groups outside the country use it as the fill in when their flag isn't allowed-nazi's and white supremacists for instance in germany.

[OldDog]

"Congratulations! You Oppose The Confederate Flag. Now What?"

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/23/...flag-now-what/

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT



"It has become a distraction all over the country right now," Bentley said. The iconic Confederate battle flag in particular "is offensive to some people because unfortunately, it's like the swastika; some people have adopted that as part of their hate-filled groups."

altho i agree that the flag should not be flown on public property, the above isn't correct. the flag has always been a symbol of racism and white supremacy in this country.
now, other hate groups outside the country use it as the fill in when their flag isn't allowed-nazi's and white supremacists for instance in germany.

You are correct. Look, I don't want to see the Feds ban the rebel flag (free speech) but companies and the market place have a role here, it's time that a statement is made that bad taste (to say nothing of hatred and racism) HAS NO PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by OldDog

"Congratulations! You Oppose The Confederate Flag. Now What?"

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/23/...flag-now-what/

The rebel flag is a symbol, to many it represents the worst of human nature...I resent this writers arrogant assumption that I think removing it from our culture will end racism and bigotry, of course not but this goes beyond "political correctness" and isn't some knee-jerk reaction to the murders in SC. We don't use the "n-word" and we consider hate crime particularly vile...if we strive for a more just society we can't turn a blind eye to folks who hide behind freedom of speech to subvert the very nature of freedom. This is a message that must be sent...a necessary step in a journey far from it's end.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

You are correct. Look, I don't want to see the Feds ban the rebel flag (free speech) but companies and the market place have a role here, it's time that a statement is made that bad taste (to say nothing of hatred and racism) HAS NO PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY.

i don't see a ban happening at all. nor should it.

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The rebel flag is a symbol, to many it represents the worst of human nature...I resent this writers arrogant assumption that I think removing it from our culture will end racism and bigotry, of course not but this goes beyond "political correctness" and isn't some knee-jerk reaction to the murders in SC. We don't use the "n-word" and we consider hate crime particularly vile...if we strive for a more just society we can't turn a blind eye to folks who hide behind freedom of speech to subvert the very nature of freedom. This is a message that must be sent...a necessary step in a journey far from it's end.

well said. i've always been against the states flying it-how unnerving to those not of that viewpoint who lived in those states. what message did it send to their citizens who saw that flag and wondered?
i am a history nut, and have been to just about every civil war battlefield in this country, large and small. but i know full well what that flag meant, and what it continues to mean to many. it has a place in history, in museums, as a learning point...but to have flown it with pride by state governments...simply unreal. and i'm glad i get to see that change in my lifetime, it's gone on too long already.
i hope the removal is a first step. much needs changing. it's a continual process, not a journey with one or two destinations, such as appamattox and selma.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The rebel flag is a symbol, to many it represents the worst of human nature...I resent this writers arrogant assumption that I think removing it from our culture will end racism and bigotry...

Gosh, sorry you took offense. I didn't know you worked in the media. Television or print?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by OldDog

Gosh, sorry you took offense. I didn't know you worked in the media. Television or print?

No...I don't work in the media. While I understand the writer was challenging the media's coverage, I found his implication that the rest of us are mindless sheep who are controlled by media coverage and thusly adhere to the naïve concept that if the rebel flag is gone everything will be "all good".

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by OldDog

"Congratulations! You Oppose The Confederate Flag. Now What?"

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/23/...flag-now-what/

Well...would really like to eliminate guns, but since that is a problem, maybe start with the Viagra that fuels them. Got a good stance to keep that piece of sh#t flag?

[Danzig]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/politi...ose/index.html

What a wretch.

His idiotic comments about the shooting are beyond the pale.. But as tho he felt he'd not let enough stupid fall out of his mouth:


He voted against opening debate about whether to remove the flag from the memorial on Tuesday.

"I think the misuse and the miseducation of the flag has pushed it to this point," he said then.

"Why do we let hate groups dictate how we feel and how we live?" he added. "Hate groups are everywhere. They're just mean people. We just found that out in Charleston."

You, sir, are who needs educating. That flag has stood for something since the day it was first carried by the army of northern Virginia 150 years ago. What it stood for then is what it still means to some now, your revisionist southern apologist history notwithstanding. Wondered who the moron was who voted not to debate. Now I know.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/politi...ose/index.html

What a wretch.

Guy has the conservative politician's disease...open mouth, insert foot! In their zeal to toe the NRA line, they frequently lament about the lack of guns...if only teachers were armed, and bring your gun to church! I'm not the guy who thinks banning guns would end killing, but this isn't the wild west and it seems obvious that more guns doesn't solve the problem.

[Danzig]

Just read an article, and found out...its not just that flag at the sc state capitol that has to be debated and voted on:


Late Tuesday, the board of the Citadel voted to ask the South Carolina General Assembly to amend a state law so that the university can remove a Confederate naval flag from a place of honor in the chapel. A law enacted in 2000, the South Carolina Heritage Act, states that “any monument, marker, memorial, school, or street erected or named in honor of the Confederacy or the civil rights movement located on any municipal, county or state property shall not be removed, changed or renamed without the enactment of a joint resolution by a two-thirds vote of the membership of each house of the General Assembly approving same.”

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

No...I don't work in the media. While I understand the writer was challenging the media's coverage, I found his implication that the rest of us are mindless sheep who are controlled by media coverage and thusly adhere to the naïve concept that if the rebel flag is gone everything will be "all good".

One might believe, judging by the amount of media coverage dedicated to the significance of the flag's removal, that everything WILL be "all good." I agree with the writer:

This is in fact what outrage culture does. We’re addicted to judgment porn, and this is just the latest example. And just like traditional porn, outrage porn serves only for momentary release. Confederate flag burning doesn’t actually do anything to stop racism. It’s a complete sideshow. And once we’ve blown up every confederate statue and smashed every tombstone with Confederate marks and erased all evidence of the Confederacy from our roads, we’ll still have the scourge of racism and every other sin with us.

I'm happy the flag is coming down. But it's a knee jerk reaction. Does anyone believe that had it been removed in 2000 instead of relocated to the confederate soldiers memorial this shooting would not have occurred? Likewise, does anyone believe that any of the gun laws proposed after Sandy Hook would have prevented it?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by OldDog

One might believe, judging by the amount of media coverage dedicated to the significance of the flag's removal, that everything WILL be "all good." I agree with the writer:



I'm happy the flag is coming down. But it's a knee jerk reaction. Does anyone believe that had it been removed in 2000 instead of relocated to the confederate soldiers memorial this shooting would not have occurred? Likewise, does anyone believe that any of the gun laws proposed after Sandy Hook would have prevented it?

I agree that hate and violence won't stop with the removal of a symbol, or gun laws but that's not the point....when one perceives something as "wrong", one is obligated to try and fix it. The rebel flag is an affront to not only blacks but all folks who see it as both a reminder of past and present racism. I support rational gun laws, the ones that restrict automatic and semi-automatic weapons, require background checks for everyone desiring to purchase any gun and regulates the sale and transportation of lethal weapons. I also support reforms and increased funding for the mental health system, coupled with a national data base allowing professionals to identify potential violent folks and a process allowing said folks to get treatment. None of this will stop violence, but it will, in my opinion, be steps in the right direction. Again, removal of the rebel flag from government domains isn't a knee-jerk reaction rather a long overdue reform.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by OldDog

One might believe, judging by the amount of media coverage dedicated to the significance of the flag's removal, that everything WILL be "all good." I agree with the writer:



I'm happy the flag is coming down. But it's a knee jerk reaction. Does anyone believe that had it been removed in 2000 instead of relocated to the confederate soldiers memorial this shooting would not have occurred? Likewise, does anyone believe that any of the gun laws proposed after Sandy Hook would have prevented it?

of course it won't be all good. and of course the shooting would still have occurred.
that doesn't mean the flag should remain either. it's too bad it took such a thing to get those bozos to take it down, but it's certainly not a cure all or anything of the sort. but it does remove a blight, one that should have been gone long ago. well, it shouldn't have been put back up. it was done as a collective nose thumbing toward dc back when the civil rights movement was gearing up. it wasn't for heritage, it wasn't for pride, it was to send a message.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Again, removal of the rebel flag from government domains isn't a knee-jerk reaction rather a long overdue reform.

This this this. I fail to understand why a nation would honor the symbols of an insurrection against the nation. Private citizens, whatever, you want to publicly show you're a bigot by flying the Stars and Bars on your lawn, be my guest. But for state governments to use taxpayer money to do it? What?

The swastika may be a symbol with 12,000 years of history behind it, and for 11,920 of those years it was a positive symbol. But I ain't flying it in my yard, nor do I think Germany should (and of course, Germany banned it years ago).

Though of course, sales of the Confederate battle flag did make for some hilarious Amazon reviews:

[Rudeboyelvis]

RACIST CAR!!



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...evel-pc-idiocy

This is Orwellian

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

RACIST CAR!!



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...evel-pc-idiocy

This is Orwellian

well, it is racist.
they can strip it, or not. it's their choice. i haven't heard anyone say the flag should be banned, barred, not sold, not bought. everyone individual can fly whatever bloody flag they wish.
but it should NOT be on property like state capitols, that's just ridiculous.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

This is Orwellian