oh, the stupid...it hurts

[Danzig]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...o_measles.html

stupid mother speaks, stupid pol supports stupidity.

[OldDog]

Indeed, that's a mind-numbingly stupid headline.

[Rudeboyelvis]

So left leaning Slate runs a hit piece and leaves out a whoooole bunch of pretty important details, which they were later forced to reveal by Fiorina's campaign.

For one: yeah, it's your kid, and if your religious proclivities prevent you from forceably injecting toxins into your kid, you have the liberty- under the letter of the law in the Constitution, to refuse to allow it....But the school districts have the same rights to expel and refuse admittance of said kid.

Seems completely rational to me.

Stupid only hurts when one blindly quotes "sources" with an already exposed agenda. And then have to wonder why they started to call someone, who clearly has an exponentially higher IQ than they do, stupid. Cuz then they look real stupid. And that hurts

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

So left leaning Slate runs a hit piece and leaves out a whoooole bunch of pretty important details, which they were later forced to reveal by Fiorina's campaign.

For one: yeah, it's your kid, and if your religious proclivities prevent you from forceably injecting toxins into your kid, you have the liberty- under the letter of the law in the Constitution, to refuse to allow it....But the school districts have the same rights to expel and refuse admittance of said kid.

Seems completely rational to me.

Stupid only hurts when one blindly quotes "sources" with an already exposed agenda. And then have to wonder why they started to call someone, who clearly has an exponentially higher IQ than they do, stupid. Cuz then they look real stupid. And that hurts

Toxins?

As for the school thing....that's all well and good. But kids don't just go to public schools...remember the measles outbreak at Disneyland? Or stores, daycare, the doctors office and so on.
What Carly, or any supposed intelligent person should say is ma'am, you're misinformed about vaccines that have prevented a variety of dangerous and deadly diseases from infecting millions of folks. Please listen to doctors instead of friends on Facebook and playboy centerfolds who cite one debunked study by a doctor who had his license stripped due to that bad study.
People use religion to not take kids to doctors, and now to let their kids flirt with disaster by not taking preventive steps.
Recently a boy died because his parents didn't get him vaccinated. They promptly got his sister caught up on her shots. Fat lot of good it did her dead sibling. I bet if they could go back in time, they wouldn't have been so careless with his health. They sure didn't risk their own! And he paid the price for it.

[Danzig]

As for her smarts....
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/...-carlys-ouster

And yea, when someone tells a stupid woman that she has the right to believe made up crap to keep from protecting her kids...that's stupid.

[GenuineRisk]

“The Mirror Crack’d” was based on a true story. In 1943, Gene Tierney volunteered to help out at the Hollywood Canteen, a support-the-troops nightclub set up by people in the film industry. (This was after she made “Heaven Can Wait” and just before “Laura.”) Tierney, who was pregnant (the father was Oleg Cassini), came away infected with rubella. Her daughter, Daria, was born early and in bad shape—just over three pounds, deaf, with severe cataracts and brain damage. She never learned to speak. Sometime afterward, Tierney met a woman who said that she’d gone to the Hollywood Canteen that night despite being in quarantine with rubella. From Tierney’s website:

“Everyone told me I shouldn’t go,” the starstruck woman told Tierney years later at a tennis match, not realizing what she was responsible for, “but I just had to go. You were my favorite.”
Tierney didn’t kill her, but she did descend into years of depression. Daria was eventually institutionalized. (Howard Hughes paid many of her medical bills.)

This is from a New Yorker article about the incalculable damage Andrew Wakefield, ex MD has done since the late 1990s. This is why vaccination is not a personal choice; it's a public health issue. Because this is the kind of damage non-vaccinated people can do when they get infected.

[Danzig]

oh wow, that is awful. never heard that before.
whenever the topic comes up, I remember the story of typhoid mary. she eventually had to be forced into isolation, she refused to quit cooking for people even tho she knew full well she was spreading typhoid!
I know people want to be free to decide things...but my god, you're toying with your childrens lives people...because you believe a model over a doctor? baseless rumors over science?
I have no more respect for people who refuse vaccines based on bs than I do people who refuse to take their child to the doctor, because they're gonna pray to get the poor kid healed.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

oh wow, that is awful. never heard that before.
whenever the topic comes up, I remember the story of typhoid mary. she eventually had to be forced into isolation, she refused to quit cooking for people even tho she knew full well she was spreading typhoid!
I know people want to be free to decide things...but my god, you're toying with your childrens lives people...because you believe a model over a doctor? baseless rumors over science?
I have no more respect for people who refuse vaccines based on bs than I do people who refuse to take their child to the doctor, because they're gonna pray to get the poor kid healed.

This is the link to the New Yorker article:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-da...accine-follies

It concludes with the author talking about how, when she was pregnant, it was discovered that her rubella immunity had elapsed, but since she was pregnant, she couldn't be re-vaccinated. She spent the rest of her pregnancy terrified she'd come into contact with someone infected who didn't know they had it, or didn't feel sick enough to stay home. That's what gets me seeing red when people go, "Well, then just get yourself and your kids vaccinated and mind your own business!" Augh! That is not how vaccination works, folks!

If you can't claim religious exemptions for pooping on the sidewalk, you shouldn't be able to claim them for vaccinations. Both are about reducing threats to the public.

[Danzig]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/au...cine-myth.html

And this, which I find fascinating...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...racy-theories/

Other factors are at work in creating a conspiratorial mind. Uscinski and Parent note that in laboratory experiments “researchers have found that inducing anxiety or loss of control triggers respondents to see nonexistent patterns and evoke conspiratorial explanations” and that in the real world “there is evidence that disasters (e.g., earthquakes) and other high-stress situations (e.g., job uncertainty) prompt people to concoct, embrace, and repeat conspiracy theories.”

So many issues that provoke argument are about just that...control.

[Danzig]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...to_attack.html

[Danzig]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/carly-fio...aising-muslims

shark-feeding-frenzy-from-icisdotcom.jpg

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/carly-fio...aising-muslims

Attachment 2580

Oh, the GOP primaries, when candidates have to prove their xenophobic bona fides...

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Toxins?

As for the school thing....that's all well and good. But kids don't just go to public schools...remember the measles outbreak at Disneyland? Or stores, daycare, the doctors office and so on.
What Carly, or any supposed intelligent person should say is ma'am, you're misinformed about vaccines that have prevented a variety of dangerous and deadly diseases from infecting millions of folks. Please listen to doctors instead of friends on Facebook and playboy centerfolds who cite one debunked study by a doctor who had his license stripped due to that bad study.
People use religion to not take kids to doctors, and now to let their kids flirt with disaster by not taking preventive steps.
Recently a boy died because his parents didn't get him vaccinated. They promptly got his sister caught up on her shots. Fat lot of good it did her dead sibling. I bet if they could go back in time, they wouldn't have been so careless with his health. They sure didn't risk their own! And he paid the price for it.

Unless you are talking about vaccines that DON'T contain mercury-based Thimerosal, Aluminum and Formaldehyde (which would be virtually NONE of them as the ALL do), then yes. Toxins.

But of course that isn't the point. The point is that you trumpet your hypocritical "Constitutionalist" crap ad nauseum, and then at the bat of an eyelash, shove your leftist opinion down the throat of anyone who disagrees with you.

I guess it's cuz u r smarterer than everyone else cuz you copy and paste Slate Op-ed blogs here all day.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Unless you are talking about vaccines that DON'T contain mercury-based Thimerosal, Aluminum and Formaldehyde (which would be virtually NONE of them as the ALL do), then yes. Toxins.

But of course that isn't the point. The point is that you trumpet your hypocritical "Constitutionalist" crap ad nauseum, and then at the bat of an eyelash, shove your leftist opinion down the throat of anyone who disagrees with you.

I guess it's cuz u r smarterer than everyone else cuz you copy and paste Slate Op-ed blogs here all day.

I hope you escape soon from whoever is holding you against your will and forcing you to read my leftist crap.
Your blather about mercury and the rest in vaccines is probably as accurate as your Ebola hysteria. As in not at all.

http://discovermagazine.com/2009/jun...oversy-live-on
Why? Good question.
So, rude, why does it live on? What is it that makes people like you see incredibly overwhelming evidence, and say 'nah, that's not true'?
Seriously, why?
also...why are you perfectly polite if we both agree on something, but if it's something you don't see eye to eye with me...the insults start?

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Unless you are talking about vaccines that DON'T contain mercury-based Thimerosal, Aluminum and Formaldehyde (which would be virtually NONE of them as the ALL do), then yes. Toxins.

This sentence reflects a lot of scientific ignorance. Let's shed some light, shall we?

Here's a start: there's ethylmercury, and there's methylmercury. One accumulates in the body, and one does not. One is in thimerosol and one is not. Guess which one? There was never any danger with thimerosol; it was taken out as a precaution, which turned out to be unfounded, which is why it's still in some vaccines, like the flu vaccine. Know what actually can kill you? The flu. You ingest more mercury (the dangerous kind) from tuna fish or from breaking a fluorescent light bulb.

Aluminum is used as an adjuvant to improve the vaccine's efficacy. It's also present in a lot of other things. An infant gets more aluminum from breast milk than he does from vaccines (4mg vs 10mg, higher for formula fed babies, and much higher for soy-based formula). And if you've ever taken Maalox, you've ingested 200 mg of aluminum in a single dose.

Our own bodies produce formaldehyde when we digest citrus. It's essential to forming DNA and amino acids. A 6 year old child naturally has more formaldehyde in his blood than in all of the childhood vaccines combined. Hell, a single APPLE has more formaldehyde than a child would ever get in a doctor's visit from vaccines.

And here is where scientific ignorance becomes really clear. Toxicity is about dose, not substance. Formaldehyde is harmless, nay, NECESSARY in certain levels, dangerous at high levels (like for people who work in construction or smokers).

When it comes to vaccines, the only "toxin" is the actual disease the vaccine is protecting the child against. That's why there's aluminum in some vaccines- it reduces the amount of the actual toxin (the virus) necessary to spark our amazing immune system's reaction.

So no. None of those things you cited are toxins in vaccines.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

I hope you escape soon from whoever is holding you against your will and forcing you to read my leftist crap.
Your blather about mercury and the rest in vaccines is probably as accurate as your Ebola hysteria. As in not at all.

http://discovermagazine.com/2009/jun...oversy-live-on
Why? Good question.
So, rude, why does it live on? What is it that makes people like you see incredibly overwhelming evidence, and say 'nah, that's not true'?
Seriously, why?
also...why are you perfectly polite if we both agree on something, but if it's something you don't see eye to eye with me...the insults start?

Soooo...that's the second time you deflected the point, are you going to go for a third by posting another link about vaccines, or will you answer the question?

I don't have a position on vaccines. Period. I'm not in a position to have one, for the same reasons that I don't have a position on abortion. If I were, I believe I would likely choose to vaccinate my kids, but again - that isn't the point.

The point is you are a far fringe leftist that likes to masquerade as a Constitutional centrist. And you are an enormous hypocrite.

Where in the Constitution does it state that the government has dominion over the population - to the point that they should be able to require children to be injected with diseases and toxins in order to prevent the spread of said diseases?

Simply question, really. Not asking you to cut and paste a bunch of pro-injection nonsense, just asking you where it is written that the government has the right to intrude into your family's health, against the wishes of some parents?

You can't and you won't, because it doesn't.

So you and Genuine Riot spend all day telling each other how smart you are as if you two are somehow more *enlightened* then rational people. And how much better off the country would be if we just forced the population of the country to be injected with whatever the hell the government wants to inject us with.

Lovely. Unfortunately, that far-left fringe socialism, a loooong way for the "constitutional centrist" you keep labeling yourself as. And that makes you a hypocrite.

This place is an absolute borefest any more. I won't be responding nor do I believe I will be spending anytime here going forward. You two win the internet.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Soooo...that's the second time you deflected the point, are you going to go for a third by posting another link about vaccines, or will you answer the question?

I don't have a position on vaccines. Period. I'm not in a position to have one, for the same reasons that I don't have a position on abortion. If I were, I believe I would likely choose to vaccinate my kids, but again - that isn't the point.

The point is you are a far fringe leftist that likes to masquerade as a Constitutional centrist. And you are an enormous hypocrite.

Where in the Constitution does it state that the government has dominion over the population - to the point that they should be able to require children to be injected with diseases and toxins in order to prevent the spread of said diseases?

Simply question, really. Not asking you to cut and paste a bunch of pro-injection nonsense, just asking you where it is written that the government has the right to intrude into your family's health, against the wishes of some parents?

You can't and you won't, because it doesn't.

So you and Genuine Riot spend all day telling each other how smart you are as if you two are somehow more *enlightened* then rational people. And how much better off the country would be if we just forced the population of the country to be injected with whatever the hell the government wants to inject us with.

Lovely. Unfortunately, that far-left fringe socialism, a loooong way for the "constitutional centrist" you keep labeling yourself as. And that makes you a hypocrite.

This place is an absolute borefest any more. I won't be responding nor do I believe I will be spending anytime here going forward. You two win the internet.

Ive said i dont know how many times that i dont know how one can force people to vaccinate, im not a fan of forcing a lot of things.
however, i am also not keen on people making up stuff to justify not vaccinating their kids. I believe i said that already above. They work, wonderfully, which is why some think they arent necessary. Nothing shows they are harmful.
i am not far left, far right far anything and absolutely believe the constitution is what we should follow.
calling out a mother for making up stuff to justify a bad decision, and calling out a pol for not using the opportunity to inform in no way means i think people should forced to do something. I do hate tho that some folks are so careless with their kids.
and i find it funny you think im not the rational one, and that people who ignore facts are.

[Danzig]

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/08/fio...accine-claims/

[OldDog]

I trust the CDC/Government implicitly. After all, they have never been wrong.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by OldDog

I trust the CDC/Government implicitly. After all, they have never been wrong.

so we should jettison best practice with regard to vaccines because the government isn't always correct or trustworthy?