Why did Keenland even decide to put Poly****

[Seattleallstar]

porque!?@$%#

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

Stupidity...

[Antitrust32]

they have a large interest in the stuff. I think they are partners with Martin Collins, who invented the polytrack.

They didn't listen!

[disrespectnfool]

to increase the discussion on this site.

[Round Pen]

Obviously you did not know much about the track at Keeneland Before Poly or you would not have asked that Question.

It was single handedly the worst Surface of any race track in the Country. I have seen first hand, horses would run down just Galloping over the old surface. And talking about a track Bias Old Keeneland had Probably the worst. Many times I have seen 8 races on the dirt and 8 races were the horse that made the lead won. It was incredible the front end bias there. And if it came up Sloppy there was no Chance for A closer. if you did not have speed you did not win.

I am not saying Polytrack is the answer for the Future but something had to be done about the surface at Keeneland.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Obviously you did not know much about the track at Keeneland Before Poly or you would not have asked that Question.

It was single handedly the worst Surface of any race track in the Country. I have seen first hand, horses would run down just Galloping over the old surface. And talking about a track Bias Old Keeneland had Probably the worst. Many times I have seen 8 races on the dirt and 8 races were the horse that made the lead won. It was incredible the front end bias there. And if it came up Sloppy there was no Chance for A closer. if you did not have speed you did not win.

I am not saying Polytrack is the answer for the Future but something had to be done about the surface at Keeneland.

Surface problems is one thing. The bias is another. Really all they did, bias-wise, was replace the old bias with a new bias.

Anyone have a feel for why there is such an anti-speed bias at Keeneland compared to Woodbine and Turfway?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Surface problems is one thing. The bias is another. Really all they did, bias-wise, was replace the old bias with a new bias.

Anyone have a feel for why there is such an anti-speed bias at Keeneland compared to Woodbine and Turfway?

Horses go wire to wire all the time at Woodbine, especially at night

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Surface problems is one thing. The bias is another. Really all they did, bias-wise, was replace the old bias with a new bias.

Anyone have a feel for why there is such an anti-speed bias at Keeneland compared to Woodbine and Turfway?

I have a feeling it will be tweaked a little by the April meet to eliminate (or at least reduce) the bias against speed.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Surface problems is one thing. The bias is another. Really all they did, bias-wise, was replace the old bias with a new bias.

Anyone have a feel for why there is such an anti-speed bias at Keeneland compared to Woodbine and Turfway?

Like Kasept said, I think it's the Poly along with the major restructuring of the course itself, they made the turns wider and got rid of a downhill slope...It's too bad they just didn't do this in the first place along with putting down a better dirt surface, they would have the best of both worlds, a nice track, plus poly to train on...

[dellinger63]

Keenland has definately favored closers but more recently the rail seems to be DEAD. Love the feet traveled the track is posting alongside the order of finish. Takes all the guess work away from "how far wide" was a particular horse.
Also when they go to CD there will be more than a few opportunities to catch speed horses affected by the bias (both rail and closing) at generous odds IMO.

[Pointg5]

I don't really buy into the theory that you just have to change your ways to find who wins the race...

I believe that horses have a prefferred style of running, speed, stalk, mid, or closers and that they perform optimally when they can do that...Even if a track was speed favoring that doesn't mean there's still not a possibilty for a speed duel to set up the others, it will happen even on a speed favoring track, but with this track, the off the pace horses aren't winning because the race is blowing up, they are winning, because they handle the track better and they are allowed to run with their optimum style...If you're a trainer and you're watching the races and you have a speed horse, you're probably going to tell the jock to hold back and put a speed/stalker out of their optimum running style, not to mention they probably won't like the track...I watched many races at KEE, probably 80% of them since 1999 at KEE, sure there was a good amount of them going wire to wire in most cases it was the 1 1/16th races that this happened in, because they would change the finish line in those races to be closer to the turn, but with the 6f and 7f races, if you watched alot of them it was usually a wall of horses battling to get position and not just one horse popping it, in this scenario this gave the stalkers and speed horses a chance, along with the closers to win if there's a total meltdown...I miss the old KEE, I really do, it pains me not to go down there, but I just won't have it...

[zippyneedsawin]

Here are some standard answers for the switch:

http://polytrack.com/qa.html



Other than that, doesn't Keeneland itself own an interest in Polytrack?

[Seattleallstar]

in short Polytrack is gay!, let it stay in Turfway where it belongs

[todko]

Keeneland owns 1/2 of Turfway (Harrah's [the casino giant] owns the other half). Keeneland/Turfway has more than an interest in Polytrack. They are the sole distributor of the surface in America.

Both Nick Nicholson (pres of KEE) and Bob Elliston (pres of TP) have been very active in promoting and selling the poly to other tracks. I don't know what they get out of it personally -- but they are at the forefront of the poly expansion. Del-Mar is going with poly and they had people out to Turfway long before the first horse ever ran on the surface.

It's all about the money and the latest sales pitch that it's best because it's safer for horses doesn't add up. The tracks have never been particularly concerned about horse or jockey safety. To get them to make safety related improvements has been like pulling teeth. The real sales pitch off the record is that it supposedly saves around $500,000 in yearly maintenance. Every track is going to buy into that. That's how it's being sold.

And Keeneland can't sell it without using it.

Originally Posted by todko

Keeneland owns 1/2 of Turfway (Harrah's [the casino giant] owns the other half). Keeneland/Turfway has more than an interest in Polytrack. They are the sole distributor of the surface in America.

Both Nick Nicholson (pres of KEE) and Bob Elliston (pres of TP) have been very active in promoting and selling the poly to other tracks. I don't know what they get out of it personally -- but they are at the forefront of the poly expansion. Del-Mar is going with poly and they had people out to Turfway long before the first horse ever ran on the surface.

It's all about the money and the latest sales pitch that it's best because it's safer for horses doesn't add up. The tracks have never been particularly concerned about horse or jockey safety. To get them to make safety related improvements has been like pulling teeth. The real sales pitch off the record is that it supposedly saves around $500,000 in yearly maintenance. Every track is going to buy into that. That's how it's being sold.

And Keeneland can't sell it without using it.

yeah,
I find it pretty funny because of what Round Pen said about the old surface there being very dangerous.
Its funny how everyone is all of a sudden so concerned about horse safety now that they can make cash on it.
WOuld it really have been so hard to make the dirt track safer all those years?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by todko

Keeneland owns 1/2 of Turfway (Harrah's [the casino giant] owns the other half). Keeneland/Turfway has more than an interest in Polytrack. They are the sole distributor of the surface in America.

Both Nick Nicholson (pres of KEE) and Bob Elliston (pres of TP) have been very active in promoting and selling the poly to other tracks. I don't know what they get out of it personally -- but they are at the forefront of the poly expansion. Del-Mar is going with poly and they had people out to Turfway long before the first horse ever ran on the surface.

It's all about the money and the latest sales pitch that it's best because it's safer for horses doesn't add up. The tracks have never been particularly concerned about horse or jockey safety. To get them to make safety related improvements has been like pulling teeth. The real sales pitch off the record is that it supposedly saves around $500,000 in yearly maintenance. Every track is going to buy into that. That's how it's being sold.

And Keeneland can't sell it without using it.

bingo!! how can you invest in something, and then not use it?? gotta put the $ where the mouth is, or vice versa in this case. they certainly can't bill it as the greatest thing since the wheel and then not install it. that track is now a billboard for the stuff, and no doubt will make them back more money than they spent installing it....