Latest insanity: Online 'DFS' tourney play up in air for NY residents

[Kasept]

New York bill might bar state residents from online handicapping contests
By Matt Hegarty

http://www.drf.com/news/new-york-bil...pping-contests

A bill signed Thursday by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo legalizing online daily fantasy sports contests in the state but prohibiting the same contests for horse racing is raising concerns about the future of online horse-racing activities in New York.

The bill, which will allow New York residents to enter contests on popular fantasy sites such as FanDuel and DraftKings, contains a prohibition on “DFS contests” for horse racing and collegiate sports events. While racing officials contacted Thursday said they were still uncertain about the impact of the language, several said they believed that the language would prohibit racing-related fantasy-contest operators such as Derby Wars from doing business with New York residents.

The language has also led the operators of online handicapping tournaments to seek legal advice about whether the provision would mean blocking New York residents from the contests.

Daily Racing Form Inc. is a leading host of online handicapping tournaments in the U.S. and runs the official online qualifying site for the National Handicapping Championship. Ken Kirchner, the senior vice president for DRF Tournaments, said he could not comment on the New York bill until the company had a chance to assess the impact of the racing-related language.

In addition to DRF, many account-wagering operators and racetracks host online tournaments, though many only reach the local population.

Keith Chamblin, the chief operating officer of the NTRA, which administers the NHC, said the association does not know how the law will impact online tournaments but noted that the association requires that “all NHC qualifiers be conducted in accordance with all state and federal laws.”

“How the New York Daily Fantasy Sports Law will impact online horse-racing contests remains to be seen,” Chamblin said. “Each contest operator must make that determination for itself.”

Several racing executives in New York who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the uncertainty created by the language said they did not believe the provision would prevent New York residents from participating in online handicapping tournaments as long as cash prizes were not given out daily, as is the case with FanDuel and DraftKings. However, they did say that Derby Wars and sites like it would likely have trouble operating in New York under the new law.

Mark Midland, the co-founder and chief executive of Derby Wars, did not return a phone call Thursday. Although a small business, Derby Wars operates the most popular Internet site for racing fantasy contests.

Late last year, The Stronach Group, a racing company that owns racetracks and an account-wagering operation, sued Derby Wars, claiming that the site did not properly compensate racetracks for using their races as a basis for payouts. The suit remains unresolved.

Joe Faraldo, the president of the Standardbred Owners of New York, said that harness-racing interests had pressed for a provision in the bill that would require racing fantasy sites to pay 3 percent of the gross revenue from any contests that used New York content to Standardbred and Thoroughbred industries in the state. Faraldo said that Midland of Derby Wars agreed to that provision just as the bill’s language was being finalized.

However, just prior to the bill being introduced, representatives of offtrack betting companies then pressed legislators to add another provision that would require racing fantasy sites to also pay 5 percent of the gross as a source-market fee to the OTB in the customer’s market area, Faraldo said. That led Midland to withdraw his support for any payments to the racing industry, and legislators then inserted the ban on racing fantasy sites, Faraldo said.

“I thought we had a deal that everyone can live with,” Faraldo said. “I tried to talk the legislators out of the market-origin fees but couldn’t do it.”

[pointman]

Great.

There is no money grab that Cuomo doesn't like. Worst Governor New York has ever had, he can't go fast enough.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pointman

Great.

There is no money grab that Cuomo doesn't like. Worst Governor New York has ever had, he can't go fast enough.

Nick..

Can you discern the legalities involved in here?

[Pants II]

From the drf article I'm assuming the lawyers for Draft Kings and Fan Duel negotiated with state lawmakers and slipped in the language to ban horse racing.

Pretty slick move on their part.

I'm also assuming DerbyWars will be sold/bankrupt. They're being squeezed.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Nick..

Can you discern the legalities involved in here?

Steve, it is hard to say as the law seems unclear as to whether it applies to sites like NHC, DRF, etc. It seems that the law is limited to daily payouts which I would think daily contests falls within. I would suspect that they would be cautious and possibly suspend play in NY until it is clarified. They likely would have to request an opinion from the Attorney General's office as to whether what they are specifically doing is contrary to law.

Otherwise, they can continue but run the risk of the Attorney General taking them to Court to get an injunction to shut them down like what was done with fantasy betting on Draft Kings and Derby Wars.

Regardless, this doesn't look good for NY contest players to me. Knowing how Cuomo operates I suspect he will want these sites to kick money to the State in exchange for language that makes it clear that they can operate in New York. This does not look pretty for NY contest players.

[kp319]

Originally Posted by pointman

Great.

There is no money grab that Cuomo doesn't like. Worst Governor New York has ever had, he can't go fast enough.

And he can take Schneiderman with him.

[ateamstupid]

"However, just prior to the bill being introduced, representatives of offtrack betting companies then pressed legislators to add another provision that would require racing fantasy sites to also pay 5 percent of the gross as a source-market fee to the OTB in the customer’s market area, Faraldo said. That led Midland to withdraw his support for any payments to the racing industry, and legislators then inserted the ban on racing fantasy sites, Faraldo said."

Albany politics in a nutshell. If there's not an undeserved kickback in there somewhere, you can't do business.

[jms62]

This sounds like extortion FFS. My dad was a pretty hardscrabble guy. We agreed on very little. Often times when **** happened I would hear " I wish they had a 1 day huntin(sic) season on (fill in the blank)" I chuckle cause I thought that about these corrupt politicians on this issue.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by kp319

And he can take Schneiderman with him.

Agreed, the worst kind of political hack. Reminds me of Spitzer.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

"However, just prior to the bill being introduced, representatives of offtrack betting companies then pressed legislators to add another provision that would require racing fantasy sites to also pay 5 percent of the gross as a source-market fee to the OTB in the customer’s market area, Faraldo said. That led Midland to withdraw his support for any payments to the racing industry, and legislators then inserted the ban on racing fantasy sites, Faraldo said."

Albany politics in a nutshell. If there's not an undeserved kickback in there somewhere, you can't do business.

Absolutely, what a cesspool of corruption it is and that is both sides of the aisle. Interesting that the most corrupt government entity in NY which has never been run in the best interests of horse racing, OTB, seeks a windfall here. There is no justification for OTB to give a dime here as they are not expending anything that is costing them any money by legalizing contest play.

In fact, OTB is an outdated model which should be disbanded and consolidated to online wagering run by the racetracks, which incidentally has already been successfully done in the city of NY. Only in NY would a legalized corrupt patronage organization demand a higher share than the brick and mortar people who actually expend money to make the contests happen.

[pointman]

I just received this email from HorseTourney's:

"Last week, the governor of New York signed into law new legislation covering Daily Fantasy Sports (DFS) in the state. As part of the provisions, the new legislation prohibits fantasy-style games on horse racing.

While the exact legal status of horse racing tournaments is still open to question, after conferring with our legal counsel, we have made the determination that we must restrict play from New York residents at this time.

Effective immediately and until further notice, the following policies will be in place regarding play from New York residents at HorseTourneys:

(1) Players from New York may no longer withdraw funds from player accounts; any credit must be played only in contests at HorseTourneys. In other words, players from New York are prohibited from winning real money, including travel reimbursements that may be part of qualifying packages.

(2) Players from New York may continue to play in any events toward the pursuit of on-track/on-site qualifiers supported by the industry, such as the National Handicapping Championship (NHC) and other on-site events. Again, please be aware that New York residents may not withdraw travel allowances that may be included as part of any qualifying packages.

New York players with current account balances may make a one-time withdrawal up to the amount currently held in the player balance. There is no deadline for this request.

To make a withdrawal, players must email support@horsetourneys.com or fill out a Customer Support request form. Please include:

(1) The amount of the withdrawal requested
(2) Preference for either Check or PayPal (include Paypal email address); please note that bank transfers will not be available

We regret that changes in New York law have affected your participation at HorseTourneys. Please know that we are actively working on a long term solution to allow full online tournament playing privileges and will notify you as soon as any change to our policy in New York has been made.

Thank you for your understanding and for your patronage at HorseTourneys. Please let us know if you have questions."

It looks like at least for the time being we can play but cannot receive travel allowances or withdraw cash. I hope that this gets straightened out quickly but I do not have much hope considering the cesspool of corruption that sits in Albany.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by pointman

I just received this email from HorseTourney's:

"Last week, the governor of New York signed into law new legislation covering Daily Fantasy Sports (DFS) in the state. As part of the provisions, the new legislation prohibits fantasy-style games on horse racing.

While the exact legal status of horse racing tournaments is still open to question, after conferring with our legal counsel, we have made the determination that we must restrict play from New York residents at this time.

Effective immediately and until further notice, the following policies will be in place regarding play from New York residents at HorseTourneys:

(1) Players from New York may no longer withdraw funds from player accounts; any credit must be played only in contests at HorseTourneys. In other words, players from New York are prohibited from winning real money, including travel reimbursements that may be part of qualifying packages.

(2) Players from New York may continue to play in any events toward the pursuit of on-track/on-site qualifiers supported by the industry, such as the National Handicapping Championship (NHC) and other on-site events. Again, please be aware that New York residents may not withdraw travel allowances that may be included as part of any qualifying packages.

New York players with current account balances may make a one-time withdrawal up to the amount currently held in the player balance. There is no deadline for this request.

To make a withdrawal, players must email support@horsetourneys.com or fill out a Customer Support request form. Please include:

(1) The amount of the withdrawal requested
(2) Preference for either Check or PayPal (include Paypal email address); please note that bank transfers will not be available

We regret that changes in New York law have affected your participation at HorseTourneys. Please know that we are actively working on a long term solution to allow full online tournament playing privileges and will notify you as soon as any change to our policy in New York has been made.

Thank you for your understanding and for your patronage at HorseTourneys. Please let us know if you have questions."

It looks like at least for the time being we can play but cannot receive travel allowances or withdraw cash. I hope that this gets straightened out quickly but I do not have much hope considering the cesspool of corruption that sits in Albany.

Stinks for sure but at least you are still allowed to participate for NHC

[TheSpyder]

Only after making a couple nice hits did I find out you can't take money out in SC, the same rules apply, only can qualify for big Tourneys

[pointman]

Originally Posted by jms62

Stinks for sure but at least you are still allowed to participate for NHC

Yeah that is a bit of a positive at least for now. However, now we can't get travel fees and certain tournaments (such as the Wynn the last year) don't pay the hotel fee but give a cash reward for the hotel. I am hoping that they don't change position and start denying NY residents playing altogether until this is sorted out. I have not heard from NHC/DRF yet.

The worst part about it though is this has nothing to do with gambling or concerns with gambling, or any other government function, it is a straight out and out money grab. If these things are done in the private sector you are subject to a RICO indictment and branded mafioso.

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

Only after making a couple nice hits did I find out you can't take money out in SC, the same rules apply, only can qualify for big Tourneys

Spyder, that sucks, was not aware that there are other states as dumb as NY. At least we can still try to get the big ones. Hope to see you at one of them!

[jms62]

Originally Posted by pointman

Yeah that is a bit of a positive at least for now. However, now we can't get travel fees and certain tournaments (such as the Wynn the last year) don't pay the hotel fee but give a cash reward for the hotel. I am hoping that they don't change position and start denying NY residents playing altogether until this is sorted out. I have not heard from NHC/DRF yet.

The worst part about it though is this has nothing to do with gambling or concerns with gambling, or any other government function, it is a straight out and out money grab. If these things are done in the private sector you are subject to a RICO indictment and branded mafioso.



Spyder, that sucks, was not aware that there are other states as dumb as NY. At least we can still try to get the big ones. Hope to see you at one of them!

Can you put money In?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by jms62

Can you put money In?

I am not sure, but I think so. I have a lot of credits right now so I have not had to make a deposit.

[HoosierInOhio]

Originally Posted by pointman

I am not sure, but I think so. I have a lot of credits right now so I have not had to make a deposit.

It says you can make a one-time withdrawal of your current balance if you wanted your cash.

BTW, sucks for NY, absolutely ridiculous.

[jms62]

If you can't deposit HT should consider a Transfer to Friends feature.

[TheSpyder]

If you qualify for a large event, you can transfer.

Originally Posted by jms62

If you can't deposit HT should consider a Transfer to Friends feature.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

If you qualify for a large event, you can transfer.

I am talking about transfering cash to a friend

[Kasept]

DerbyWars, HorseTourneys bar New York residents from playing
By Matt Hegarty

SARATOGA SPRINGS, N.Y. – Racing’s two most prominent daily fantasy sites have shut off New York residents from winning cash in any of their contests, citing the recent approval of legislation in the state that contained language barring horse-racing fantasy contests despite explicitly authorizing the contests on nearly all other sports.

The companies, DerbyWars and HorseTourneys, posted notices on their websites recently alerting New York residents that they will no longer be able to deposit cash or receive cash awards for contests appearing on their sites. The legislation barring the contests was signed by New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Aug. 4.

Mark Midland, the founder of DerbyWars, said the alert was posted as a direct result of the legislation, which was crafted to regulate daily fantasy-sports contests offered by sites like DraftKings and FanDuel, both of which operate companies valued in the billions of dollars. While those sites received explicit authorization to operate under the bill, language was inserted into the legislation barring the same activity on horse racing due to objections from New York’s offtrack betting companies, which were seeking a share of the racing companies’ revenue.

“We felt like it was important to take the conservative approach,” Midland said. “This is just another example where racing is not as politically active as it should be. We are hopeful that we may be able to work with the racing industry and seek a solution to this.”

HorseTourneys posted a more nuanced alert on its website than the one posted at DerbyWars, warning that New York residents would be “prohibited from winning real money, including travel reimbursements” for online handicapping contests that qualify for the National Handicapping Championship.

Prior to the legislation being passed, DerbyWars had informally agreed to provide the Standardbred and Thoroughbred racing industries in New York with a cut of its revenue from contests containing New York races. However, the agreement was scuttled after New York’s county-owned OTBs then pressed for an additional cut of the revenue.

The legislation has also led to confusion over whether New York residents can participate in online handicapping tournaments, though most major handicapping-contest operators have continued to allow New York residents to participate. Daily Racing Form is one of the largest contest operators in the United States.