George Washington & David Junior in Classic Division

Bernardini · #1 10-25-2006, 03:23 PM

Is a mistake imo, a very similar to Dylan Thomas. Only in Classic they will be facing five to six very talented dirt horses. So why not compete in Turf Division ??

Revolution · #2 10-25-2006, 03:26 PM

Nothing to prove on the grass. George Washington shouldn't be thrown out with that Alysheba blood in him.

Cajungator26 · #3 10-25-2006, 03:28 PM

I wouldn't throw out David Junior either. This oughtta be interesting...

Sightseek · #4 10-25-2006, 03:29 PM

David Junior's pedigree could go either way, while Dylan Thomas was clearly bred for the turf. I think he has a shot.

Thunder Gulch · #5 10-25-2006, 03:33 PM

I remember thinking they were nuts for running Sakhee in the Classic when he would have been really tough in the turf...only an incredible determined run by Tiznow kept him from winning...same with Giants Causeway.

Bernardini · #6 10-25-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

Nothing to prove on the grass. George Washington shouldn't be thrown out with that Alysheba blood in him.

good point, guess i dont follow turf races as much !!! nevertheless, i think Dini or Lava Man is very tough company to run with or run by...
Being a dini fan i have loads of respect for lava man, so my concerns revolve their match up..

cakes44 · #7 10-25-2006, 03:51 PM

I've got to have some throwouts, so I'm throwing both of them out. I can only go by what I know, and if I get beat by some turf-to-dirt monster, so be it. I'm not going to be Starcrafted this year.

Cajungator26 · #8 10-25-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44

I've got to have some throwouts, so I'm throwing both of them out. I can only go by what I know, and if I get beat by some turf-to-dirt monster, so be it. I'm not going to be Starcrafted this year.

I just wouldn't throw out David Junior. Sorry, but I wouldn't...

cakes44 · #9 10-25-2006, 03:58 PM

If it was Frankel or Drysdale or some other trainer that I trust with turf horses, dirt horses, AND a 4-month layoff, then I probably wouldn't throw him out.

Bernardini · #10 10-25-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I just wouldn't throw out David Junior. Sorry, but I wouldn't...

Okay, what’s the deal with DJ, why do you think he has a serious chance ?? Honestly, I don’t know much about him or GW to make a call. My analysis is strictly based on Dylan Thomas's performance. Also, I’m assuming, this is the first time both DJ and GW on US track and on Dirt.

brockguy · #11 10-25-2006, 04:18 PM

I think David Junior is the very very overrated. Cant see him being good enough here. George Wash could be a monster on the dirt, but I highly doubt it.. another big negative for GW is that he can be horribly slow (even by euro standards) from the gate!

Cajungator26 · #12 10-25-2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernardini

Okay, what’s the deal with DJ, why do you think he has a serious chance ?? Honestly, I don’t know much about him or GW to make a call. My analysis is strictly based on Dylan Thomas's performance. Also, I’m assuming, this is the first time both DJ and GW on US track and on Dirt.

I think that as a talent standpoint, he's equal to Bernardini. True, he has not raced on dirt, but his breeding isn't strictly turf as Dylan Thomas's is. PLUS, I'm biased... he's a Florida bred.

brianwspencer · #13 10-25-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernardini

Okay, what’s the deal with DJ, why do you think he has a serious chance ?? Honestly, I don’t know much about him or GW to make a call. My analysis is strictly based on Dylan Thomas's performance. Also, I’m assuming, this is the first time both DJ and GW on US track and on Dirt.

i believe that outside of the big 3 (invasor, bernardini, and lava man), david junior has one of the very few chances to throw an upset.

the reason he has a serious chance is that he's explosive on the racetrack -- watch his dubai race...it's electrifying. he's got pleasant tap on top -- although his bottom half seems turf turf turf -- he stands a reasonable chance of taking to the dirt like it's not a problem.

it'd be a rough way to get burned at the windows, when all signs point to him having as good a shot as anyone.

Sightseek · #14 10-25-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

i believe that outside of the big 3 (invasor, bernardini, and lava man), david junior has one of the very few chances to throw an upset.

the reason he has a serious chance is that he's explosive on the racetrack -- watch his dubai race...it's electrifying. he's got pleasant tap on top -- although his bottom half seems turf turf turf -- he stands a reasonable chance of taking to the dirt like it's not a problem.

it'd be a rough way to get burned at the windows, when all signs point to him having as good a shot as anyone.

My reasonings too.

Like Spencer said; "He's a rocket!"

#15 10-25-2006, 11:00 PM

These Euros will get left. Way too much early pace that holds. Wrong BC. Not this year. Not a good field at all to try on the dirt. These Euros dont get out of the gate and dont get in early contention, and then have to fight too hard to make up ground. I hope they keep them out. Lava Man setting a tough early pace will happen if another horse does not. And there will be too many horses that can stay close enough to the pace to make catching up rough. And then you got Bernardini... stay home.

#16 10-25-2006, 11:13 PM

I have David Junior completing the EX behind Bernardini right now if the race were tomorrow....his Florida connections (Arthur Appleton - breeder) are saying that he is training like a monster on the all-weather track in Europe....he is classy and loves 10 furlongs and is by Pleasant Tap (primarily a dirt sire) - beware......

dalakhani · #17 10-26-2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I have David Junior completing the EX behind Bernardini right now if the race were tomorrow....his Florida connections (Arthur Appleton - breeder) are saying that he is training like a monster on the all-weather track in Europe....he is classy and loves 10 furlongs and is by Pleasant Tap (primarily a dirt sire) - beware......

Agreed. And people are NOT taking into consideration the surface at Chruchill Downs. Turf horses have tended to take to that surface better than other dirt surfaces.

I like David Junior to at least finish in the money.

#18 10-26-2006, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Agreed. And people are NOT taking into consideration the surface at Chruchill Downs. Turf horses have tended to take to that surface better than other dirt surfaces.

I like David Junior to at least finish in the money.

Yep, ie: Barbaro

Hwjb · #19 10-26-2006, 10:13 AM

George Washington is by some way the best European horse travelling to Churchill Downs this year but he's not straightforward. It was a commercial decision of Coolmore's to run him in the Classic, one I can't see paying off. The way he is ridden, that is held up, using his explosive turn of foot to kill of the opposition is unlikely to prove as effective on the surface and, just as likely, he may resent the kickback and sulk. Either way I think it's long odds against him reproducing his outstanding turf form in the dirt. That said, if by some chance he does, he would be the only horse capable of giving Bernardini a race.

David Junior has been very sparingly campaigned this year, and will arrive a fresh horse. Certainly don't have a problem with the highly capable Brian Meehan preparing one off a break - indeed DJ's best effort came on a return from a 5 month absence - and I would rate his chances of acting on the surface in advance of those of GW's. His Dubai success was impressive, but the race perhaps wasn't the greatest G1 ever held. He had legitimate excuses in the PoW next time, before picking up in fine style to win the Eclipse at Sandown. That form, albeit still short of his Champion Stakes success over Pride and the Dubai win, has been franked, with runner-up Notnowcato subsequently winning the International, and Ouija Board, Aussie Rules and Blue Monday all going on to win since. For all that he is clearly high-class, he probably just lacks the requisite class relative to Bernardini and George Washington. May well not stop him from running in to the first 4, though.

#20 10-26-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hwjb

George Washington is by some way the best European horse travelling to Churchill Downs this year but he's not straightforward. It was a commercial decision of Coolmore's to run his in the Classic, one I can't see paying off. The way he is ridden, that is held up, using his explosive turn of foot to kill of the opposition is unlikely to prove as effective on the surface and, just as likely, he may resent the kickback and sulk. Either way I think it's long odds against him reproducing his outstanding turf form in the dirt. That said, if by some chance he did, he would be the only horse capable of giving Bernardini a race.

David Junior has been very sparingly campaigned this year, and will arrive a fresh horse. Certainly don't have a problem with the highly capable Brian Meehan preparing one off a break - indeed his best effort came on a return from a 5 month absence - and I would rate his chances of acting on the surface in advance of those of GW's. His Dubai success was impressive, but the race wasn't the greatest G1 ever held. He had legitimate excuses in the PoW next time, before picking up in fine style to win the Eclipse at Sandown. That form, albeit still short of his Champion Stakes success over Pride and the Dubai win, has been franked, with runner-up Notnowcato subsequently winning the International, and Ouija Board, Aussie Rules and Blue Monday all going on to win since. For all that he is clearly high-class, he probably just lacks the requisite class relative to Bernardini and George Washington. May well not stop him from running in to the first 4, though.

Thanks hwjb....I always enjoy a good European perspective on thoses horses.