Should Songbird retire?

[10 pnt move up]

The question was posed to her rider mere seconds after the race by Maggie Wolfendale of the NYRA.

I thought the question on the surface is a bit absurd, and to ask her rider seconds after a loss seems odd since he neither trains nor owns the horse.

I don't know if its our culture or what but its horse racing, they lose sometimes. Train them back up and run again.

[RHT2004]

Well... it depends. Shes a solid graded stakes horse. But when psychopaths go around twitter calling her an all time great and stuff then you have to take the L like a man. She will never beat FU again. Songbird IMO just hasn't moved forward from 3-4. Nothing wrong with that and i am sure they can find spots away from FU, Stellar Wind, Vale Dori and Elate. Because right now, she cant beat any of them.
Whats wrong with being good? Historically just off the top of my head shes not better then Zenyatta, Rachel, Silverbulletday, Royal Delta, Beholder.....So when people say best ever or make up lies like Alabama it's just a lot of nonsense.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Well... it depends. Shes a solid graded stakes horse. But when psychopaths go around twitter calling her an all time great and stuff then you have to take the L like a man. She will never beat FU again. Songbird IMO just hasn't moved forward from 3-4. Nothing wrong with that and i am sure they can find spots away from FU, Stellar Wind, Vale Dori and Elate. Because right now, she cant beat any of them.
Whats wrong with being good? Historically just off the top of my head shes not better then Zenyatta, Rachel, Silverbulletday, Royal Delta, Beholder.....So when people say best ever or make up lies like Alabama it's just a lot of nonsense.

u didnt answer the question

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

u didnt answer the question

No she shouldn't. They can cash checks running 2nd to the horses I mentioned or find softer spots.

[Lava]

No she shouldn't but all the 3 year old dirt males should.

[Konk]

They asked Lucien Lauren that same question after the Wood.

God, what a truly stupid question.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Lava

No she shouldn't but all the 3 year old dirt males should.

Not that I blame them, but witness the near instantaneous backlash the 3yo divisions leaders suffered once the classic winners and Haskell runners all tanked in the Travers:

Battle of Midway, classic-placed and a Haskell also-ran, along with fellow Grade 1 winners Gormley and Klimt, all dropped down to listed stakes company at Del Mar for the Shared Belief Stakes and none went off favored. The favorite, Gate Del Oro, had form similar to Fayeq (i.e., a maiden and allowance win) who was long odds in the Travers and was eased across the line.

Battle of Midway, adding blinkers and getting off at over 3-1, romped home by over 6 lengths.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Not that I blame them, but witness the near instantaneous backlash the 3yo divisions leaders suffered once the classic winners and Haskell runners all tanked in the Travers:

Battle of Midway, classic-placed and a Haskell also-ran, along with fellow Grade 1 winners Gormley and Klimt, all dropped down to listed stakes company at Del Mar for the Shared Belief Stakes and none went off favored. The favorite, Gate Del Oro, had form similar to Fayeq (i.e., a maiden and allowance win) who was long odds in the Travers and was eased across the line.

Battle of Midway, adding blinkers and getting off at over 3-1, romped home by over 6 lengths.

I think the distance, and the blinkers helped, was a much easier field but he also ran his best race to date in my mind. He was always a talented horse, I heard about him a while back as a two year old.

[Alabama Stakes]

She ran awesome today. No shame in getting beat a neck to that mare on her third cross country trip in as many tries. She is awesome.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think the distance, and the blinkers helped, was a much easier field but he also ran his best race to date in my mind. He was always a talented horse, I heard about him a while back as a two year old.

I was surprised he landed in this spot. He had a bullet work on the turf earlier in the meet and, being by Smart Strike, looked primed for his turf debut in the Del Mar Derby.

However, perhaps machinations from the owners (Winstar, Don Alberto) probably rerouted him for another go at major score on the dirt. My guess is that today's race was just a dry run for the $1 million Pennsylvania Derby in 4 weeks.

They can always wait for the Hollywood Derby on the grass later in the year if he doesn't get it done on the main.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

She ran awesome today. No shame in getting beat a neck to that mare on her third cross country trip in as many tries. She is awesome.

Yep she is awesome in today's racing vernacular. Love the shipping innuendo as to some how suggest that furthers her awesomeness. You know who is really awesome? Her connections who have never ducked a race and campaigned her in the best races across the country, this is the only thing "awesome" about SongBird.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yep she is awesome in today's racing vernacular. Love the shipping innuendo as to some how suggest that furthers her awesomeness. You know who is really awesome? Her connections who have never ducked a race and campaigned her in the best races across the country, this is the only thing "awesome" about SongBird.

What is her record Freddy ? How many grade I wins? She got beat a neck. She is awesome. You are a miserable bastid who can't see greatness. I guess Beholder isn't great to be so pressed by such a mediocre filly ...right ? Lady Eli isn't great either because she lost 2 close ones. Unbridled Forever must suck too since she couldn't get by in the distaff right , Freddy? Oh yeah and bid got beat in the Belmont, he's not much. Arrogate just lost twice... he's no longer awesome?
Go back to shooting rats down by the river.

P.S. it's not a vernacular it's a ****ing Derby

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yep she is awesome in today's racing vernacular. Love the shipping innuendo as to some how suggest that furthers her awesomeness. You know who is really awesome? Her connections who have never ducked a race and campaigned her in the best races across the country, this is the only thing "awesome" about SongBird.

This kinda sounds silly Freddy....her record is pretty damn good, as race horses go. Some people act like she has not done a thing.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

This kinda sounds silly Freddy....her record is pretty damn good, as race horses go. Some people act like she has not done a thing.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

This kinda sounds silly Freddy....her record is pretty damn good, as race horses go. Some people act like she has not done a thing.

Freddy likes to surf on rickety floor boards. His utter dismissal of the fact that Songbird has shipped 3 times this year sounds pathetically contrarian. When Zenyatta was going strong the refrain was that she never shipped for a showdown such as yesterday's Personal Ensign. Conveniently in Songbird's case its a non-issue.

So unless Freddy has had a change of heart regarding Big Z, he sounds completely disingenuous here.

[outofthebox]

Songbird would have wiped clean of the Ballerina yesterday, and all would be good in the world today...

[ateamstupid]

She was 2-5, loped along on the easiest of leads and still got tagged. There was nothing "awesome" about her performance. But this is who she is. She's a nice filly who always shows up, no matter the track, and runs average to below-average races for the Grade I level. She is entirely dependent on who she's facing and she lost to a clearly better horse yesterday, so now she's lost a step? Come on. She's good for the game and her connections have been great about showcasing her across the country, but the idea that she is or ever was some invincible Hall of Fame-caliber filly is just absurd.

[Seattleallstar]

No she shouldn't these horses aren't machines. Plus, I am sure if she saw the horse on her outside she would of fought back.

Saratoga and Del Mar for being the premiere meets also claims a lot of champions losing there.

I mean should Paradise Woods retire after her flop today?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Freddy likes to surf on rickety floor boards. His utter dismissal of the fact that Songbird has shipped 3 times this year sounds pathetically contrarian. When Zenyatta was going strong the refrain was that she never shipped for a showdown such as yesterday's Personal Ensign. Conveniently in Songbird's case its a non-issue.

So unless Freddy has had a change of heart regarding Big Z, he sounds completely disingenuous here.

Being objective that's all. I have watched as you have at least 10 fillies that would drown her even in her finest effort(distaff '16). The connections are awesome the filly was born in the right year. I save awesome for true fast greats not circumstantial compilers. She has run exactly 2 outstanding races in he super career

[freddymo]

From Bloodhorse/Haskins

I will save AWESOME for this:
Fantasy Stakes – Biggest margin in the history of the race (8 ¾ lengths).

Kentucky Oaks – Biggest margin in the history of the race (20 ¼ lengths).

Preakness – First filly to win the Preakness in 85 years and the first horse in history to win from post 13.

Mother Goose – Biggest margin in the history of the race (19 ¼ lengths), previously held by Ruffian, and ran the fastest time in the history of the race (1:46 1/5).

Haskell – To repeat, second-biggest margin in the history of the race (six lengths), and second-fastest time (1:47 1/5) in the history of the race by one fifth of a second, and two fifths of a second off the track record set by Spend a Buck 24 years earlier.

Woodward – First filly in history to win the Woodward, and ran the fastest time since the race was moved to Saratoga.

Even winning the Woodward by a head and the Preakness by one length, Rachel’s average margin of victory in 2009 was an astounding 8 ¼ lengths.