tha lava man thread....

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

the west coast peeps have been very quiet about the lava man....hmmm..i tossed him first...hes a game horse and no disrespect but why did they bring him to that dance..hell he would have run better in the mile..

[Pointg5]

I liked him, I thought the whole shipping thing was off course, because he looked like he was going bad before he shipped...

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

they took him to keenland i heard..and he didnt like the change .then churchill...how about right to churchill and let him get used to it,,,,

[paisjpq]

I respect Lave Man as a game, talented horse who will NOT run well outside of his home environment...

[TitanSooner]

Let him at least finish before we start talking about him.

[Cajungator26]

I liked him a lot. He was training great.

[Pointg5]

I wonder why he can't travel, General Challenge was like that...It's not like he's just winning at one track out there, he's won at Hollywood, Santa Anita, and Del Mar and maybe some others that I am missing...Those can't all be similar surfaces, not to mention he's won on turf...

Wait, why did they bring him to the Big Dance? Why wouldn't they?

Well, he won four grade 1s, three million-dollar races and is currently the all-time leading Cal-bred. Shipping out aside, it wasn't like anyone wanted to come in to California and face him over his home track. You'd think a million bucks would be enough incentive, but the truth is nobody wanted to face him here. And not to make excuses, but I gave him every benefit of the doubt for his three previous clunkers outside of California. Not so much now, but before it was definitely debatable.

My take? California horses spend a lot of time shipping East yet Eastern horses rarely come West. Why is that? And no lame excuses like the tracks are faster here. Plenty of speedy types race on the Right Coast and Cali-based horses still beat them straight up. If anything you'd think that when Cali horses ship they'd find the "deeper" tracks a hurdle.

But that's just me...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

the west coast peeps have been very quiet about the lava man....hmmm..i tossed him first...hes a game horse and no disrespect but why did they bring him to that dance..hell he would have run better in the mile..

As soon as I saw his dull coat I tossed him.

[Kasept]

Lava Man is a notorious stallrunner.. When he leaves home, he'll pace and run the stall endlessly. It's just his make up. He's not comfortable in unfamiliar surroundings and frets at the upheaval. No way to cure that in the midst of a racing career, and no way to get one to perform his best if he has that composition.. The horse handlers here can better expand on this...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Lava Man is a notorious stallrunner.. When he leaves home, he'll pace and run the stall endlessly. It's just his make up. He's not comfortable in unfamiliar surroundings and frets at the upheaval. No way to cure that in the midst of a racing career, and no way to get one to perform his best if he has that composition.. The horse handlers here can better expand on this...

Thus the dull coat!

He is such a good story. He is good for racing. Gives people like me the hope that one day we can get our hands on a Lava Man.

Originally Posted by Kasept

Lava Man is a notorious stallrunner.. When he leaves home, he'll pace and run the stall endlessly. It's just his make up. He's not comfortable in unfamiliar surroundings and frets at the upheaval. No way to cure that in the midst of a racing career, and no way to get one to perform his best if he has that composition.. The horse handlers here can better expand on this...

As it was told to me, he settled in pretty well at Keeneland from the minute he got there. And, truth be told, he's shipped all over the Southern California area (won at three different tracks) so he's conquered his stall running before. I've only stood outside his stall a half-dozen times or so and he was sleeping every time, once pretty soon after he shipped in to Santa Anita. So maybe the stallrunning is just who he is and not really a symptom of the whole shipping thing.

And the only person I truly trust in judging horseflesh who I know watched him a lot over his whole tenure with Doug O'Neill said he saw two completely different animals between the one training at Keeneland and the one who was at Churchill. He saw him the day he left for Louisville and again the following Thursday and said he thought to himself, "uh oh..."

Originally Posted by redransom

As it was told to me, he settled in pretty well at Keeneland from the minute he got there. And, truth be told, he's shipped all over the Southern California area (won at three different tracks) so he's conquered his stall running before. I've only stood outside his stall a half-dozen times or so and he was sleeping every time, once pretty soon after he shipped in to Santa Anita. So maybe the stallrunning is just who he is and not really a symptom of the whole shipping thing.

And the only person I truly trust in judging horseflesh who I know watched him a lot over his whole tenure with Doug O'Neill said he saw two completely different animals between the one training at Keeneland and the one who was at Churchill. He saw him the day he left for Louisville and again the following Thursday and said he thought to himself, "uh oh..."

He did look good at Keeneland. At Churchill he looked awful. Not sure what happened but he didnt look like the same horse at all.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

There were a lot of dull coats BC day. Hurricane Run had one as well, and Henny Hughes, Aarafa. Dull coats galore.

Well it was a$$-freezing cold for like two weeks leading up to BC Day, so I'm thinking that had a lot to do with a lot of it.

However, some horses just "fur up" at the first sign of chilly weather. I had a horse (a nice hunter, too) that would get all fuzzy the minute the California climate dare even threaten to dip below 60 degrees! Out here, for example, I see lots of still short coats and others that have already been body clipped. Of course nobody expected the Indian Summer we've had for the past few days, but when it was cooler some got furry and some didn't. And no, I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of the help. Some of the fuzzy ones came out of some of the most reputable (and well-blanketed, mind you) barns.

In Lava Man's case, I think he didn't like Louisville...

[ateamstupid]

Got it. Excuses for Lava Man are perfectly acceptable, but none for Bernardini.

Originally Posted by redransom

My take? California horses spend a lot of time shipping East yet Eastern horses rarely come West. Why is that? And no lame excuses like the tracks are faster here. Plenty of speedy types race on the Right Coast and Cali-based horses still beat them straight up. If anything you'd think that when Cali horses ship they'd find the "deeper" tracks a hurdle.

Because it's a completely different element. You might as well call California racing something other than "thoroughbred," because for years, Cali form has been as exclusive as Polytrack form is today. Some horses love it out there, and those who do can't run anywhere else (i.e. Lava Man), and some horses hate it out there.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Sorry I was being an a$$. Was making a joke with BTW, because someone mentioned that a horse they had been hyping for months on end, had a dull coat, and thus ran poorly. I have no idea what the horses coats I mentioned looked like.

I didn't think you were being an a$$ at all... I was kinda trying to figure out why the coats were dull. I don't know at all, I never saw them. I took your word for it!

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Got it. Excuses for Lava Man are perfectly acceptable, but none for Bernardini.



Because it's a completely different element. You might as well call California racing something other than "thoroughbred," because for years, Cali form has been as exclusive as Polytrack form is today. Some horses love it out there, and those who do can't run anywhere else (i.e. Lava Man), and some horses hate it out there.

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I thought Bernardini ran his eyeballs out and did a damn good job doing it. I wasn't a fan at all before the BC, but I am now. As for Lava Man, I don't think he has any excuses whatsoever. Pointing out he was supposedly training great at Keeneland and not at Churchill wasn't any kind of commentary about shipping either. There's no guarantee he'd have raced well at Keeneland at all. I was just told by someone I trust that he didn't look so hot at Churchill compared to how he looked at Keeneland.

And why is California racing something other than Thoroughbred? Personally I think that's a ridiculous statement. Form out here isn't exclusive whatsoever. All kinds of our horses ship out East and win. All kinds! And over the dirt and now polytrack, in places like Keeneland. Not so many come out here and win, however. Including a reigning Horse of the Year, may he rest in peace.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by redransom

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I thought Bernardini ran his eyeballs out and did a damn good job doing it. I wasn't a fan at all before the BC, but I am now. As for Lava Man, I don't think he has any excuses whatsoever. Pointing out he was supposedly training great at Keeneland and not at Churchill wasn't any kind of commentary about shipping either. There's no guarantee he'd have raced well at Keeneland at all. I was just told by someone I trust that he didn't look so hot at Churchill compared to how he looked at Keeneland.

And why is California racing something other than Thoroughbred? Personally I think that's a ridiculous statement. Form out here isn't exclusive whatsoever. All kinds of our horses ship out East and win. All kinds! And over the dirt and now polytrack, in places like Keeneland. Not so many come out here and win, however. Including a reigning Horse of the Year, may he rest in peace.

I think the amount of California horses who ship East and win is about the same as the amount who ship out there and win, and neither of those amounts are very high.

Besides Too Much Bling, I can't think of many California DIRT horses who shipped out here and consistently did well this past year.

[Danzig]

i give them props for trying, unlike some peeps...cough cough silver train cough.