This is my problem

Barbaro will not race again as we all know. But he prob will end up winning the eclipse award for top 3 year old. I think this is crap. If Jazil goes on and wins the Travers and another race and the runs well in the Classic then why isnt he the winner. If Bernardini wins the Jim Dandy, Travers and runs well in the Classic then why not him. Barbaro had a good career and won 4 races as a 3 year old. But that does not warrant an Eclipse Award in my mind.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Barbaro will not race again as we all know. But he prob will end up winning the eclipse award for top 3 year old. I think this is crap. If Jazil goes on and wins the Travers and another race and the runs well in the Classic then why isnt he the winner. If Bernardini wins the Jim Dandy, Travers and runs well in the Classic then why not him. Barbaro had a good career and won 4 races as a 3 year old. But that does not warrant an Eclipse Award in my mind.

I don't think he'll win the Eclipse if the above horses do as well as they SHOULD. If they don't, then he deserves it as much as any of them. Wouldn't you agree?

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I don't think he'll win the Eclipse if the above horses do as well as they SHOULD. If they don't, then he deserves it as much as any of them. Wouldn't you agree?

I agree Cajun, but I have a feeling that no matter what happens Barbaro wins the Eclipse Award for top 3 year old.

[randallscott35]

If Bernardini or Jazil can win the Travers and the Breeders Cup Classic they could make it very interesting. (throw in a Haskell and they might get it.)

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I agree Cajun, but I have a feeling that no matter what happens Barbaro wins the Eclipse Award for top 3 year old.

I don't think he will if Bernardini runs as well as he's supposed to. I wouldn't imagine Jazil getting the Eclipse, but I can see Bernardini winning if he doesn't turn out to be a bomb.

[Kasept]

We had this discussion with Haskin and Steve Crist on ATRAB. We all agreed there was potential for a three year old like Bernardini, or now Jazil, to end up Horse of the Year if they won the BCC and assorted important 3yo stakes while Barbaro gets the Sophomore Trophy...

Originally Posted by Kasept

We had this discussion with Haskin and Steve Crist on ATRAB. We all agreed there was potential for a three year old like Bernardini, or now Jazil, to end up Horse of the Year if they won the BCC and assorted important 3yo stakes while Barbaro gets the Sophomore Trophy...

I would love to see a horse like Jazil or Bernardini win the award before Barbaro. Dont get me wrong, I like Barbaro but I dont think he derserves the eclipse award just yet. He might win by default since there really isnt any clear cut outstanding 3 year old at the moment. But if someone steps up and wins a couple of big ones then that horse should win it before Barbaro.

At this point only Bernadini could beat him. Thast because he never stomped on Bern, they never met. Jazil would really have to run the table and I find that highly unlikely with his running style and the fact that the races will now shorten up.
If bern were to win the Travers and also win a race in the fall he could get it, but Barb looks like the only other horse who would win it and I think he will, deservedly so. He was so good, and you cant hold the injury against him.

[Exceller]

Bernardini wins the Jim Dandy and Travers and Bernardini is going to be 3yr old of the year as long as he puts in a good showing in the BC Classic. You have to remember Bernardini could be undefeated going into the BC Classic.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Exceller

Bernardini wins the Jim Dandy and Travers and Bernardini is going to be 3yr old of the year as long as he puts in a good showing in the BC Classic. You have to remember Bernardini could be undefeated going into the BC Classic.

COULD being the key word to that sentence. His connections did the right thing by resting him and skipping the Belmont.

I think that no matter what happens Barbaro wins the award. What is Discreet Cat comes on and wins a couple of races. Does he win the award? We all agree that Barbaro wasnt beating much down in Florida and he ran a HUGE in the Derby. But Bernardini ran huge in the Preakness. I think Bernardini can make it close, but Barbaro wins it.

[Exceller]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

COULD being the key word to that sentence. His connections did the right thing by resting him and skipping the Belmont.

That is the point though. Some people say if he wins he still won't be 3yr old of the year. I say if he does he gets the Eclipse, if he doesn't win the two big ones at Saratoga he can't beat Barbaro without a BC Classic win. Right now I think he has as good a shot as anyone at winning the BC Classic.

[irishtrekker]

Would some of it depend, too, on who Bernardini faces the rest of the season? Seems like the Derby field was arguably a tougher field overall than the Preakness, so Barbaro might get an edge there. If Bernardini runs in races like the Travers but just keeps beating horses that Barbaro already beat, or if he wins a couple but comes in behind someone that Barbaro trounced in the Derby, then it seems like Barbaro would be hard to argue against.

So, who's most likely to rain on Bernardini's parade? I agree with people who think that Brother Derek will be back in a big way. I'm also wondering if Sweetnorthernsaint could be a threat after a rest. What do you all think?

[Betsy]

Hi guys.........first time on this board, and it's fabulous. It's nice to be able to actually talk horses - the ESPN board was a jok. Steve, this is a great set up - thanks for giving us a place to chat!

I had make my first post in response to this topic; I know it's touchy to all of the Barbaro fans out there, but I think it will be a travesty if Bernardini (using him as an example, since his Preakness was incredible and he is simply much better than the Belmont horses) wins races like the Travers and a big fall race and doesn't get the Eclipse. Oracle, I know you loved Bernardini's Preakness so I know you're unbiased when it comes to the awards, but I have to disagree with you about Barbaro not being penalized for being injured. It's not Bernardini's fault that Barbaro got injured. I'll certainly agree that the latter deserves the award if no three year old steps up and does big things, but if Bernardini does win the Jim Dandy, Travers and the Classic.....or he wins the first two and runs very well in the fall (or any combination thereof) it's simply not fair to deprive him of the Eclipse. Objectively speaking, Barbaro's record this year isn't that formidable that it can't be overcome (Florida Derby, Holy Bull, KY Derby). Bernardini's won the Withers and the Preakness, so he's one grade 1 down and he'll have his chances. His Preakness was just as good as Barbaro's Derby, objectively speaking.

I think there is way too much sentimentality going on with regards to the awards. Journalists are supposed to be objective; if Bernardini wins big the rest of the year and Barbaro still gets the Eclipse, they all ought to have their voting privleges revoked, permanently. Of course, that's a big "IF"- the races still have to be run.

FYI - I was not a big fan of Barbaro's but his breakdown was appalling and he's a special horse to be able to have even made it this far. I just wanted to let you guys know that the above is not an anti-Barbaro opinion. I admit to being a huge fan of Bernardini and I hope that fans can appreciate that here is a big, beautiful horse with the potential to be a real champion.........

[miraja2]

In addition to the Holy Bull, Florida Derby, and the Kentucky Derby, Barbaro also won a G3 turf race this year.
I don't think winning races like the Jim Dandy and the Travers will be enough for a horse like Bernardini (or someone else) unless they also the win BC Classic. I think ONLY a BC Classic victory + a good summer/fall campaign by someone will take the title from Barbaro.
Flower Alley won the Jim Dandy and the Travers last year and finished second in the BC Classic (along with winning the Lanes End in the spring) and he finished well behind Afleet Alex in the voting.....as he should have.
Barbaro was spectacular in the spring and I think it is right that only a spectacular performance in the fall would take it away from him.

Bernardini needs to win the Travers (no easy task) and a grade 1 in the fall against older horses and he will be 3yr old of the year.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by miraja2

In addition to the Holy Bull, Florida Derby, and the Kentucky Derby, Barbaro also won a G3 turf race this year.
I don't think winning races like the Jim Dandy and the Travers will be enough for a horse like Bernardini (or someone else) unless they also the win BC Classic. I think ONLY a BC Classic victory + a good summer/fall campaign by someone will take the title from Barbaro.
Flower Alley won the Jim Dandy and the Travers last year and finished second in the BC Classic (along with winning the Lanes End in the spring) and he finished well behind Afleet Alex in the voting.....as he should have.
Barbaro was spectacular in the spring and I think it is right that only a spectacular performance in the fall would take it away from him.

Afleet Alex won two Classics - why is everyone forgetting that the Preakness counts just as much as the Derby? If a turf stake early in the year is the deciding factor in the award voting, that will be a disgrace. The Travers blows the Florida Derby away in terms of importance and Bernardini hasn't been spectacular? I'm sorry - Barbaro was not that great in the Holy Bull and most people were not all that impressed with the Florida Derby (no one called him spectacular after that).

There's still plenty of racing to be done - as a Bernardini fan, I hope that he makes this argument moot.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Exceller

Bernardini wins the Jim Dandy and Travers and Bernardini is going to be 3yr old of the year as long as he puts in a good showing in the BC Classic. You have to remember Bernardini could be undefeated going into the BC Classic.

Exc,

Bernardini was beaten in his career debut.. 4th as I recall.. Gulfstream. Very green and a rough start. Won't be undefeated, but will be 2-2 in stakes.. So he's got that going for him... which is nice..

[31lengths]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Exc,

Bernardini was beaten in his career debut.. 4th as I recall.. Gulfstream. Very green and a rough start. Won't be undefeated, but will be 2-2 in stakes.. So he's got that going for him... which is nice..

Great caddyshack ref.

[Skip away]

3 year old eclipse will be Barbaro's. I dont see any of the triple crown race winners even starting in the Travers. Barbaro will get it because of his Derby and the preps. No 3 year old will even be mentioned for horse of the year. Probably going to be Lava Man.