Five New Grade I Races in 2007; Two Others Drop to Grade II

[smartyalex]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36600


Will the commitee ever see past the Cella's and upgrade the friggin' ARKANSAS DERBY?????

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by smartyalex

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36600


Will the commitee ever see past the Cella's and upgrade the friggin' ARKANSAS DERBY?????

OAKLAWN= THE BEST RUN RACETRACK IN THE US

Originally Posted by jpops757

OAKLAWN= THE BEST RUN RACETRACK IN THE US

Well it should be. They have no competition and they are only open a few months of the year. In addition, they are located in the preferred spring getaway for people in that part of the United States. The Cella's do a fine job and I also think that the Arkansas Derby should be a Grade I. I have several problems with the grading of races.

Anyone who doesn't think that the Ark Derby should be a grade one needs serious counseling.
They've established the race as a true serious derby prep with quality fields and offer a big purse.
Compare the last 5 years of the Ark Derby with the Bluegrass, which is grade one, and tell me what race is churning out horses who go on and hit the board or win future grade ones.
The grading of these races in the US is very comical.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Anyone who doesn't think that the Ark Derby should be a grade one needs serious counseling.
They've established the race as a true serious derby prep with quality fields and offer a big purse.
Compare the last 5 years of the Ark Derby with the Bluegrass, which is grade one, and tell me what race is churning out horses who go on and hit the board or win future grade ones.
The grading of these races in the US is very comical.

No doubt about it Oracle. The Arkansas Derby is almost the preferred "final" prep for trainers. The three race series they have (Southwest, Rebel and Arkansas Derby) is absolutely perfect for a three year old. Out of all the "final" Derby preps, the Bluegrass is the one that is least appealing. However, The Bluegrass has history on its side.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

No doubt about it Oracle. The Arkansas Derby is almost the preferred "final" prep for trainers. The three race series they have (Southwest, Rebel and Arkansas Derby) is absolutely perfect for a three year old. Out of all the "final" Derby preps, the Bluegrass is the one that is least appealing. However, The Bluegrass has history on its side.

I truly don't see how the way horses ran in the BG in the 70's and 80's should have any bearing on how it is rated now. Who exactly has gone on to win future grade ones out of the last 5 runnings?

In the last 5 runnings, 3 horses who hit the board in the Blue Grass haev gone on to win grade ones. Peace Rules, Offlee Wild, and Harlans Holiday.

In the last 5 runnnings of the ARk Derby, off the top of my head I can list Flower Alley, Purge, Smarty Jones, and Aflet Alex.
I'll check and see if there were anymore.

I bet if Cash Call sponsored the Arkansas Derby it would move to Grade I next year.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by oracle80

In the last 5 runnnings of the ARk Derby, off the top of my head I can list Flower Alley, Purge, Smarty Jones, and Aflet Alex. I'll check and see if there were anymore.

Borrego and the late St. Liam are two I can think of immediately.. And I think Harvard Avenue may have won one.. The Malibu maybe?

Originally Posted by oracle80

I truly don't see how the way horses ran in the BG in the 70's and 80's should have any bearing on how it is rated now. Who exactly has gone on to win future grade ones out of the last 5 runnings?

Well I think that history should play a role in deciding if a race is a Grade I or not when you are looking at races with a lengthy history of being a Grade I. This is why I am a little upset about the Matron being downgraded. But there is no reason under the sun why the Arkansas Derby is not a Grade I race.

Originally Posted by Kasept

Borrego...

Ok thats 5.

Lets face it, the Bluegrass's 3 weeks out from the Derby has really hurt its stature.
That and the fact that it was run over a suspect track that was speed favoring, which they have now changed to absolutely no chance in hell on the lead.
My prognosis for the future of the Blue Grass is bleak.
Why would anyone wanna prep for the Derby over poly where speed has no chance, 3 weeks out, when you can prep at Gulf 5 weeks out, Aqu 4 weeks out, Ark weeks out, or SA 4 weeks out?
What you will get is 2nd tier horses looking to get earnings to get in who will end up making no impact on the Derby.

Originally Posted by oracle80

In the last 5 runnings, 3 horses who hit the board in the Blue Grass haev gone on to win grade ones. Peace Rules, Offlee Wild, and Harlans Holiday.

In the last 5 runnnings of the ARk Derby, off the top of my head I can list Flower Alley, Purge, Smarty Jones, and Aflet Alex.
I'll check and see if there were anymore.

Aren't you forgetting Lion Heart? I thought he was 2nd in the Bluegrass and then went on to win the Haskell.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Well I think that history should play a role in deciding if a race is a Grade I or not when you are looking at races with a lengthy history of being a Grade I. This is why I am a little upset about the Matron being downgraded. But there is no reason under the sun why the Arkansas Derby is not a Grade I race.

You are kidding right?
If thats the case then you have a whole bucnch of stakes in NY that have been downgraded that have richer histories than 90% of the current grade ones.
Check out the history of the fall highweight handicap. Its no longer even a grade 3!!!
History has no place in what should be greated.
Races evolve and take on different meaning and stature.
Its nonsense to think that what happened in 1940 means anything today.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Aren't you forgetting Lion Heart? I thought he was 2nd in the Bluegrass and then went on to win the Haskell.

Yes I am.
Thats still only 4 as compared to Ark's 5 that we can name off the top of our heads.
Borrego- Pac Classic and JCGC
Smarty- Derby and Preakness
Purge- Nyra mile
Alex- Preakness and Derby
Flower Alley- Travers and Jim Dandy

Originally Posted by oracle80

You are kidding right?
If thats the case then you have a whole bucnch of stakes in NY that have been downgraded that have richer histories than 90% of the current grade ones.
Check out the history of the fall highweight handicap. Its no longer even a grade 3!!!
History has no place in what should be greated.
Races evolve and take on different meaning and stature.
Its nonsense to think that what happened in 1940 means anything today.

I think it is a balance of past and present history of the race. I put more emphasis on past history than present. And I think the Fall Highweight should be a Graded race.

And you are also forgetting Harlans Holiday. If my memory is correct, he won the Bluegrass Stakes and then won the Donn. I think The Donn is a Grade I race. But I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

And you are also forgetting Harlans Holiday. If my memory is correct, he won the Bluegrass Stakes and then won the Donn. I think The Donn is a Grade I race. But I could be wrong.

Sigh,
I wish you could get things straight.
If you actually read my posts instead of rushing off to try and prive something I say wrong, which is your main mission here, you'd see I listed him at the top of the thread as one of the four.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Yes I am.
Thats still only 4 as compared to Ark's 5 that we can name off the top of our heads.
Borrego- Pac Classic and JCGC
Smarty- Derby and Preakness
Purge- Nyra mile
Alex- Preakness and Derby
Flower Alley- Travers and Jim Dandy

Why aren't you counting Saint Liam?

As big a travesty as the Arkansas Derby not going to G1 is that the Southwest is still ungraded. It should absolutely be a G3 between the combination of horses that have won it the past three years and the $250,000 purse.

Originally Posted by oracle80

In the last 5 runnings, 3 horses who hit the board in the Blue Grass haev gone on to win grade ones. Peace Rules, Offlee Wild, and Harlans Holiday.

In the last 5 runnnings of the ARk Derby, off the top of my head I can list Flower Alley, Purge, Smarty Jones, and Aflet Alex.
I'll check and see if there were anymore.

Can you read Euro?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Can you read Euro?

Apparently not. Can you maybe add voice to this board so I can hear recorded comments?