Question about breeding

[Scav]

Does the farm that hosts the stallion pick which mares the stallion will go to? What prevents someone with a ton of money and wanting an Empire Maker baby from claiming a horse for 5k and paying the 100k to bred them?

Originally Posted by Scav

Does the farm that hosts the stallion pick which mares the stallion will go to? What prevents someone with a ton of money and wanting an Empire Maker baby from claiming a horse for 5k and paying the 100k to bred them?

Well if someone owns a share or a season in the horse they can't prevent them from doing that. In the late 80's or early 90's a guy horrified the public by breeding a daughter of Mr Prospector to one of his daughers. Nothing they could do about it, the guy owned a share or a season.
But other than that, you have to submit your mare to be approved by the fram who stands the stallion and they must approve your mare in order to go that stallion. Empire Maker wont be hosting any 5 claimers.

From what I have been told, the process simply takes care of itself. Nobody would pay a high price fee if they only had a cheap mare. It would be pointless. They carefully watch the book in the younger stallions but for the most part if you have the cash, they are willing to take it.

[Scav]

I am going to find a horse that I can claim that will work well with Lemon Drop Kid and get a group and claim the mare and breed the sum boetch. There are plenty of mares with 'ok' pedigrees but have had there problems you can get for 15k or 20k...ALL OVER IT now

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Scav

I am going to find a horse that I can claim that will work well with Lemon Drop Kid and get a group and claim the mare and breed the sum boetch. There are plenty of mares with 'ok' pedigrees but have had there problems you can get for 15k or 20k...ALL OVER IT now

Im still pissed about the LDK first we whiffed that night..

[Scav]

Sunday at Belmont, TWO IN A ROW on the turf, both paid NICE

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well if someone owns a share or a season in the horse they can't prevent them from doing that. In the late 80's or early 90's a guy horrified the public by breeding a daughter of Mr Prospector to one of his daughers. Nothing they could do about it, the guy owned a share or a season.
But other than that, you have to submit your mare to be approved by the fram who stands the stallion and they must approve your mare in order to go that stallion. Empire Maker wont be hosting any 5 claimers.

"by breeding a daughter of Mr Prospector to one of his daughers."

I am confused! Does this mean that two of Mr. Prospector's daughters engaged in some equine lesbianism?

[miraja2]

In all seriousnes though, the horse's name is Winlocs Millie.

Sire: Mr. P.
Broodmare Sire: also Mr. P.

Disgusting.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by miraja2

In all seriousnes though, the horse's name is Winlocs Millie.

Sire: Mr. P.
Broodmare Sire: also Mr. P.

Disgusting.

Yep, that's disgusting.

[Downthestretch55]

Scavs,
I can only speak from my experiences.
If one of my mares looks like a good match to a stallion, I contact the farm.
Yes, they have to approve the mare (and she has to be vetted, coggins, etc.).
If the stallion has a full book, you might be rejected.
But if his book isn't full, a "lesser" mare might be approved.
From my experience, I'll just tell you to develop a good relationship with the farm where the stallion of your choice stands. Pay your stud fees in a timely manner. Keep things above board.
DTS

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Scav

I am going to find a horse that I can claim that will work well with Lemon Drop Kid and get a group and claim the mare and breed the sum boetch. There are plenty of mares with 'ok' pedigrees but have had there problems you can get for 15k or 20k...ALL OVER IT now

from what i've seen, you should be able to find a very nice pedigreed mare and race performance at the $5k level.

[sumitas]

As a matter of fact, today's 2nd race at Arlington had a nice $4k claimer that has broodmare potential, Ensign Slew.

Originally Posted by Scav

Does the farm that hosts the stallion pick which mares the stallion will go to? What prevents someone with a ton of money and wanting an Empire Maker baby from claiming a horse for 5k and paying the 100k to bred them?

Yes, a breeding inquiry for a stallion from a broodmare has to be submitted to the respective stud farm and then the farm decides whether or not your broodmare qualifies to breed to the stallion of interest....they determine this by the obvious factors:

Demand - if the stallions book is substantial than they will turn away lesser mares, but if the stallion's book is lite than they will take the business from anywhere to assure having the optimum covers per breeding season...the market has a way to balance itself out...you rarely have people irrationally trying to breed a bad mare to the top stallions because it economicaly doesn't make sense...if people have the money to spend $100,000 to breed to Empire Maker then they probably have enough money to own nice mares...most breeding requests that get turned down probably aren't as ridiculously lopsided as the example you provided...also, keep in mind that it is VERY common to get turned down for a stallion...it happens all of the time...I've gotten turned down before with very nice mares...it all has to do with demand for the stud..

Quality/Pedigree - If a stud stands in the marklet for more than $20K then there is probably a good reason he has a market to stand for that amount...the demand is there. With that being said, stud farms processes the breeding inquiries at the beginning of each year and uses quality and/or pedigree to deteremine the management of the stallion's book....Obviously, good race mares with good pedigrees make for the most attractive candidates and get first preference....after that, good racemares with average or lesser pedigrees, as well as mares with great to good pedigrees but no racing credentials get the second biggest looks, especially unraced or non-winners that may be half-sisters to stakes horses....and then, horses that displayed average ability on the track with averege pedigrees get a look....if there are any openings left in a good studs book, then maybe you'll get a few mares with bad race records and an averege pedigree....you get the picture...

Since Funny Cide is so popular on this board, I'll use him as an example. His dam - Belles Good Cide - was not a good racemare...she ran around Remington Park and Lone Star Park around the mid-late 90s and never earned a Beyer fig over 68 while racing for $20-$25K claimers after failing to win against entry-level allowance company in several attempts....she has a subpar pedigree being by Slewacide - who stud for next to nothing - out of a Little Current mare that was a decent producer, having produced a couple of Okie-bred stakes winners - but nothing special....they retired her and got her in foal to Distorted Humor, who was only standing for around $10-20K at the time and was fresh off the track trying to get some business....the rest is history...Belle's Good Cide could get to any stallion now because she is established, but she would not of been able to get to Distorted Humor in 2006 if she had not produced Funny Cide...

Bottomline: The market is set up to level itself out...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by sumitas

As a matter of fact, today's 2nd race at Arlington had a nice $4k claimer that has broodmare potential, Ensign Slew.

Sum, Arlington has a TON of mares that would be good for breeding, it is amazing sometimes the claiming levels some of these horses get to

[sumitas]

then look for the very best pedigree. out of today's 2nd race, Ensign Slew had the best pedigree. but if you want a mare specifically for Lemon Drop Kid you will have to dig deeper. i wouldn't recommend Ensign Slew for Lemon Drop Kid.

Originally Posted by sumitas

then look for the very best pedigree. out of today's 2nd race, Ensign Slew had the best pedigree. but if you want a mare specifically for Lemon Drop Kid you will have to dig deeper. i wouldn't recommend Ensign Slew for Lemon Drop Kid.

If i had a season to Lemon Drop Kid, I would breed a mare with a definate turf pedigree/ability to him, preferrably from the Northern Dancer line...he has been a far better turf sire than maintrack sire (aside from Lemons Forever, which is his best runner)...Northern Dancer works very well on the bottomside for turf performers and LDK's immediate prescense of Mr. P and Seattle Slew disallow breeding back to a mare close to that lineage...Northern Dancer would be 5 generations back rom the foal, which is a nice generation distance for inbreeding...

[Pedigree Ann]

I would also suggest that if you aren't trying to breed a 12f horse, you need to find some speed in the mare. Lemon Drop Kid was a stayer who beat lesser horses with his class at shorter distances. It is my opinion that dirt runners who turn into 'turf' sires, like Affirmed did and LDK seems to be doing, are transmitting more stamina than is called for in today's dirt racing and need a mare with an injection of speed to get offspring suitable for the US market.

[Scav]

To get something clear about this, I would never send a 5k mare to Empire Maker, was just trying to be specific about the question.

As far as Ann talking about getting a horse for the US Market, it is my belief that most US breeders bred for dirt. If I ever do this, my goal would be an Arlington Million winner, with the Kentucky Derby a close 2nd......Lemon Drop Kid will throw a Million winner, eventually, so will Empire Maker