Current state of Thoroughbred Racing....

[smartyalex]

Having gaught a bit of ATRAB yesterday, I enjoyed listening to Zito's viewpoints on the current state of horse racing. With the current drug suspensions and other negatives on the sport, Zito mentioned voting a Commisioner for horse racing could help regulate these issues. Also, a caller mentioned going to a "no drugs for 2 y.o. rule". What are your views on this? Do you have a better suggestion? I thought these both were great points!

[Danzig]

many horses run on lasix out of the gate first time. it's ridiculous. i think bleeder rules need a good looking over. changes must be made there. also, anabolic steroids should be banned.

[Echo Farm]

This was posted on another forum..........Interesting

Sports Illustrated from August 12, 1963.

On the cover is Alfred G Vanderbilt. Title, Alfred G Vanderbilt Rebels against racings establishment.


"The major points in Vanderbilt's immediate bill of particulars are:

1) Thoroughbred racing is now much too concerned with the betting dollar.
2) Management is not putting on a good show for the customers.
3) The heavy emphasis on sprints and claiming races overvalues the cheap horse and discourages the breeding and training of classic thoroughbreds.
4) The officiating at racetracks is uneven, sometimes uninformed and occassionally unfair."

Wow, we've made progress in the last 43 years!!!!

Some ideas Vanderbilt had:
1) A thorough physical examination for every horse just prior to a race.
2) A uniform examination to qualify for a trainers license.
3) A nationwide policing agency for racing.
4) Better protection for stable areas.
5) Improved sterilization methods for racing equipment.
6) Better accomodations for stable help.

Another thought of his was for the sport to curtail but not totally abolish 2 year old races before April 1st.

[Cannon Shell]

We tried the commissioner thing once before and it was a miserable failure and waste of money. Ideally this would be a great idea if you could find the right person for the job and the states and tracks would cede power but they wont so I don't even want to bother with the subject any more.
As for the "no drugs for 2 year olds" matter, what is declared a drug? Lasix? Bute? everything? I understand the idea in theory but it seems silly that a 2 year old horse is treated differently then an older one. Getting rid of medications is an idealistic way of thinking. Instead we should highly monitor and regulate all medications. I would have no problem turning over my medication records to the proper authorities and subject my horses to out of competition testing. Many would resist but the reality of horses having many minor physical issues and reality of needing to treat them medically is real.
Lasix is not some great evil drug that it is made out to be. It helps bleeders to some degree and is easily tested for and reglated. The physical side effects, mostly dehydration, are easily taken care of. The "masking" abilities are no longer valid with the types of testing now done. We spend far too much time worrying about Lasix, Bute, Banamine, etc. What we should be focusing on are the presently undetectables and future technology such as gene manipulation.

[jpops757]

IMO. Thero-bred racing needs some kind of national governing body to supercede any state or regoinal orgs. Gambling is a necesary evil that is required for TB racing but the sport has to be the driving force. As long as gambling rules the racing TB racing will remain a minor sport in the publics eyes. Two yr olds racing, arent they actually making purses availiable for work outs prior to Ap 1st. Just think about it ! The states issue a liscense to operate a race track based on there ability to operate a gambling establishment and little or no concern for the racing industry. Think about it how many of us would be TB fans without the gambling aspect. Look at all the major sports they thrive because of rabid fans. Im not trying to say no gambling takes place but it is not what makes the sport popular. This is just my opinion and you can probably rip it to shreds but have at it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jpops757

IMO. Thero-bred racing needs some kind of national governing body to supercede any state or regoinal orgs. Gambling is a necesary evil that is required for TB racing but the sport has to be the driving force. As long as gambling rules the racing TB racing will remain a minor sport in the publics eyes. Two yr olds racing, arent they actually making purses availiable for work outs prior to Ap 1st. Just think about it ! The states issue a liscense to operate a race track based on there ability to operate a gambling establishment and little or no concern for the racing industry. Think about it how many of us would be TB fans without the gambling aspect. Look at all the major sports they thrive because of rabid fans. Im not trying to say no gambling takes place but it is not what makes the sport popular. This is just my opinion and you can probably rip it to shreds but have at it.

States rights is a huge issue that carries implications far greater than our sport. The states would fight tooth and nail any attempt to create a national governing body. It simply will not happen. The merits of it notwithstanding, our sport is 99% dependant on gambling. It simply is not a mainstream sport, nor will it ever be. The way mainstream sports generate revenue are not pertinent to our sport. We have no tv contract outside the triple crown, its preps and the BC and its preps. We have virtually no merchandising and admissions are hardly a source of revenue. Look at the NFL, they supposedly speak out against gambling but every move they make is geared toward helping create more gambling on the games. Do you think Sunday night and thusday night games are bet more heavily than if they were played Sunday at 1? We as a sport should regulate the problems, and promote the fact that a day at the races can get you damn rich if you happen to catch the right results. Nobody in the public is interested in a thursday card at ANY track unless you can make money off of it. Hell in our society almost nothing is appealing to the public unless there is some monetary value attached to it.

[Danzig]

gambling is handled by the states, but all other aspects could be, and should be, handled by one governing body. drug standards especially.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

States rights is a huge issue that carries implications far greater than our sport. The states would fight tooth and nail any attempt to create a national governing body. It simply will not happen. The merits of it notwithstanding, our sport is 99% dependant on gambling. It simply is not a mainstream sport, nor will it ever be. The way mainstream sports generate revenue are not pertinent to our sport. We have no tv contract outside the triple crown, its preps and the BC and its preps. We have virtually no merchandising and admissions are hardly a source of revenue. Look at the NFL, they supposedly speak out against gambling but every move they make is geared toward helping create more gambling on the games. Do you think Sunday night and thusday night games are bet more heavily than if they were played Sunday at 1? We as a sport should regulate the problems, and promote the fact that a day at the races can get you damn rich if you happen to catch the right results. Nobody in the public is interested in a thursday card at ANY track unless you can make money off of it. Hell in our society almost nothing is appealing to the public unless there is some monetary value attached to it.

Well said chuck. My knowledge of the inside of the sport is limited but it sounds to me if we have folks like you the Jacksons and the guy that owns Oaklawn[Cella i think] the sport has some people that respect the sport and really want some improvements.

[capbettr]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Getting rid of medications is an idealistic way of thinking. Instead we should highly monitor and regulate all medications. I would have no problem turning over my medication records to the proper authorities and subject my horses to out of competition testing. Many would resist but the reality of horses having many minor physical issues and reality of needing to treat them medically is real.

I own a horse in Maryland and had a conversation with my trainer the other day about what you mention above, Cannon Shell. With the focus being on trying to find a way to take the accidents out of medication overages, I suggested that all meds be made accountable for. Could all meds in a vets box be controlled by the state and made so that a vet could only have in his box what he had been issued by a state vet, for example?

Part of our conversation was on Pletcher's Mepivacaine (sp?) pos that he's serving now. My trainer couldn't think of a good reason that the Mep should have even been in a vet's box, much less administered. If that truely is the case, then why not make it so a vet can only have state issued drugs, with those drugs and their administration fully traceable through records that show which horse received what and how much, and then have the vet's box checked each day on the way in and out of each stable area?

I'm sure there's lots of pro's and con's to what I've suggested but, geez, we have to start somewhere.....

Thoughts?

[sumitas]

We know medicines have a different affect on kids than adults. So banning drugs for 2 year olds might not be a bad idea.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by phystech

I own a horse in Maryland and had a conversation with my trainer the other day about what you mention above, Cannon Shell. With the focus being on trying to find a way to take the accidents out of medication overages, I suggested that all meds be made accountable for. Could all meds in a vets box be controlled by the state and made so that a vet could only have in his box what he had been issued by a state vet, for example?

Part of our conversation was on Pletcher's Mepivacaine (sp?) pos that he's serving now. My trainer couldn't think of a good reason that the Mep should have even been in a vet's box, much less administered. If that truely is the case, then why not make it so a vet can only have state issued drugs, with those drugs and their administration fully traceable through records that show which horse received what and how much, and then have the vet's box checked each day on the way in and out of each stable area?

I'm sure there's lots of pro's and con's to what I've suggested but, geez, we have to start somewhere.....

Thoughts?

Though it is my opinion that the states wont give up control of the regulations, that is in no way an endorsement of any states rules, regulations, regulators or vets. I served on a medication commitee that met with the KY horse racing authority in an attempt to draft reasonable and enforceable rules concerning medications,withdrawls, thresholds, shockwave, etc. We met 4 times with some enlightenment on both sides. However this whole event was a charade on the states part to say that they had met with us (horsemen) and we approved what they were doing. Though we managed to tweak some of the proposed rules (many were so far off...) almost nothing of any value was accomplished. It was a political move on the part of the KHRA and they emphasized this by saying that they did not have to meet with us ut they did it as though they were extending some sort of olive branch. The whole medication issue is very complex, there are so many variables and the racing commissions just dont want to spend the time, money, or effort on it. Taht is why so many states supposedly adopted the Racing Consortium's model rules, though few states actually abide by them. Also understand that the state vets in most of the states are not exactly experts in anything other than taking a fairly low paying job that no smart vetwould want. There are exceptions and these people work hard but I doubt that most of them have he ability to be of any help concerning medication.

I'm not sure why your trainer would have said that Mepiviciane would not be found in a vets box. It is commonly used as a nerve block to try to determine the exact point of acute lameness. The withdrawl time is fairly consistent in most jurisdictions and every vet that I have ever used carried it.

The biggest problem when keeping track of records and such is the cost. Who picks up the cost of hiring and training people to go through the vets trucks, keep records, etc. It would be a huge job and it would cost quite a bit of money to do. The tracks would try to put it onto the states, the states would cry poor and as usual nothing gets done. It is probably a pretty good idea to have full disclosure in regards to medication but there are barriers.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm not sure why your trainer would have said that Mepiviciane would not be found in a vets box. It is commonly used as a nerve block to try to determine the exact point of acute lameness. The withdrawl time is fairly consistent in most jurisdictions and every vet that I have ever used carried it.

I was going to say this too....mepivacaine/carbocaine is a great product when used properly for diagnosing an exact area of soreness/lameness when you just can't figure out what is going on with a horse...

[Left Bank]

Well,whatever racing is going to do,it had better hurry up and clean up it's act,because I have a feeling the feds will get involved sooner or later.They are all over Baseball right now,and,You think Elliot Spitzer was bad,wait till the next "Hotshot"Running for office decides to pick on racing before his or her campaign.All I have to say is they better get it together and real soon because the sh_t is gonna hit the fan soon!!

[capbettr]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Though it is my opinion that the states wont give up control of the regulations, that is in no way an endorsement of any states rules, regulations, regulators or vets. I served on a medication commitee that met with the KY horse racing authority in an attempt to draft reasonable and enforceable rules concerning medications,withdrawls, thresholds, shockwave, etc. We met 4 times with some enlightenment on both sides. However this whole event was a charade on the states part to say that they had met with us (horsemen) and we approved what they were doing.

Thanks for the info, Cannon. Excellent points all around.

I may have misunderstood my trainer about the Mep - I'll have to go back and have the conversation again to make sure I understood correctly.

I understand all of your points, especially the ones about a lot of the changes that need to be made being cost prohibitive. And yet, I can't help but wonder if for states like Maryland, where we're playing on an uneven field because we don't have slots, if maybe the horsemen could go to the state and ask for funding for new positions for people to oversee a more intensified regulation of the administration of meds to the horses. More oversight and scrutiny of how meds are used could potentially be a selling point by the MD tracks to attract more bettors to the MD product.

Would horseplayers be attracted to playing MD tracks if they knew there was less of a chance of misuse of meds here? If so, it could potentially lead to larger pools, which in turn would fund larger purses, etc......

Or is that simply a pipedream?

[packerbacker7964]

start banning trainers for + test. I'm not talking a simple 6 months I mean years. 2,3 hell even 5 for serious stuff. Mullins, Norman, Assman and Lake get'em out of here for a long time. I agree they need to get the drugs cut down to just a few and each state have the same rules. But you can't do that because then your cutting jobs in each state and then you'd have to vote and then well it just won't happen unless the owners of the same tracks limited what drugs could be used at their tracks. Now that's an idea worth talking about.

[Ghostzapperfan]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

Well,whatever racing is going to do,it had better hurry up and clean up it's act,because I have a feeling the feds will get involved sooner or later.They are all over Baseball right now,and,You think Elliot Spitzer was bad,wait till the next "Hotshot"Running for office decides to pick on racing before his or her campaign.All I have to say is they better get it together and real soon because the sh_t is gonna hit the fan soon!!

I am afraid that this is very true. Federal officials don't seem to have anything better to do than have Congressional hearing on baseball and passing riders to amendments to ban internet gambling, so getting involved in the racing medication issue wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Maybe some of what was said at the Racing Symposium will be put into action. At least it was brought out into the open...

ALostTexan

[docicu3]

As a physician I will always have trouble accepting this one because in humans the first action of furosamide or Lasix is a response in twenty minutes after pushing the drug. The entire pulmonary capillary circulature dilates allowing for better matching of blood flow and open alveoli units. When the blood volume or pressure is too high, the lungs have areas where there is excessive blood flow but no air gets there or what we respiratory dweebs call V/Q mismatch or shunting.

With a good slug of a loop diuretic such as Lasix the V/Q mismatch is reversed in 30 minutes to an hour.Put a more simplistic way the patient can breathe better.....what could possibly be better for a horse!!!!

Although the increase in capillary area is useful in stopping bleeding in a horses feet and legs the effect in the lungs is profound and thus the horse is more comfortable running.

If the horse hasn't bled they really shouldn't be able to use it......oh well enough clinical stuff time to go play the GG speed bias of the last week. Early Speed is king!!!

I'll post plays later today....

DrDave

[Ghostzapperfan]

Thanks, Doc, for the interesting post, and good luck today at GG...

ALostTexan

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

With a good slug of a loop diuretic such as Lasix the V/Q mismatch is reversed in 30 minutes to an hour.Put a more simplistic way the patient can breathe better.....what could possibly be better for a horse!!!!

Although the increase in capillary area is useful in stopping bleeding in a horses feet and legs the effect in the lungs is profound and thus the horse is more comfortable running.



DrDave

Therefore if the drug is having the intended effect of stopping bleeding and allowing the horse to run more comfortably and the fact that virtually all horses are running on Lasix kind of makes the argument for its use. Defining a regular bleeder is compliated because virtually all horses will show some signs of blood in the trachea (throat) after racing or a workout. I was always puzzled by the theory that we should wait for a horse to bleed really badly before giving Lasix. It is like saying that you dont need to carry a spare tire with you untill after you have been stuck on the side of the road without one.