23% sales tax; no fed. income tax

Proposed. By a guy named Bork. Where are those economic majors to sift thru this?

Whaddya think? I think getting rid of this huge accounting mess, making the IRS ... gone for the most part would greatly simplify my life. You spend a lot, you pay a lot. BTW, the 23% would basically match what the federal government obtains using the current system.

I guess this applies to any purchase... Wonder how this would affect the stock market. But, bottom line, no paying Uncle Sam in April (for me anyway, I am one of those that take their time getting the taxes done).

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Proposed. By a guy named Bork. Where are those economic majors to sift thru this?

Whaddya think? I think getting rid of this huge accounting mess, making the IRS ... gone for the most part would greatly simplify my life. You spend a lot, you pay a lot. BTW, the 23% would basically match what the federal government obtains using the current system.

I guess this applies to any purchase... Wonder how this would affect the stock market. But, bottom line, no paying Uncle Sam in April (for me anyway, I am one of those that take their time getting the taxes done).

terrible idea...would effect the poor much more than the rich (no big surprise), while the rich would pay more for luxury items, everybody needs food, clothing etc...it would be a huge break for the richest folks!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

terrible idea...would effect the poor much more than the rich (no big surprise), while the rich would pay more for luxury items, everybody needs food, clothing etc...it would be a huge break for the richest folks!

Does make sense. 23% for people who have very little money and hardly pay any income tax, if any at all, would crush them. Paying 23% extra for food... not good.

What about the middle class though?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Does make sense. 23% for people who have very little money and hardly pay any income tax, if any at all, would crush them. Paying 23% extra for food... not good.

What about the middle class though?

It wouldn't be as bad for the middle class but still...middle class America struggles now, even a little more burden would eventually sink many! Rich folks don't live paycheck to paycheck while most Middle class folks do. Look at it this way (oversimplified I know but still)...today the tax rates increase with income so the rich pay more in taxes (at least before they find loopholes), this system would have them paying at the same rate so the difference would have to come from somewhere...namely middle class and poor folks!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Does make sense. 23% for people who have very little money and hardly pay any income tax, if any at all, would crush them. Paying 23% extra for food... not good.

What about the middle class though?

it's still a disaster, because you're still stuck paying social secutiry, still stuck paying state taxes, still stuck paying medicare payments to the government. basically, for someone like me, you'd be taking out the 15-20% federal tax, leaving all the other payroll deductions and then saying that I have to pay 23% on everything I buy, including food, clothing, gas, other necessities.

That's about the worst idea i've heard all day, and I'm sitting next a total tool at work here.

[Danzig]

surely they wouldn't tax food, altho where i live, there is a state sales tax on food.

also, 23% sounds incredibly high to me. especially when i factor in that i already pay 10.% in local/state sales tax. that's a lot of money!
i wish they could simplify the tax code, just think if we no longer had to pay all those folks at the irs!
maybe they could send out 'tax cards'-depending on what level of income you are-they scan your card before you check out at the store, and the register figures your sales tax based on the bar code on your card.
hell, if they can use those stupid cards at grocery stores to store info on what kind of peanut butter you prefer, they could do this.

[GenuineRisk]

I agree with the others about it being a huge drain on the poor, and likely the middle class as well, but pgardn, I'm SOOOOO glad you brought it up, because on the surface flat taxes and national sales tax seem like a good idea-- hey! Everyone pays the same!-- and it's not until people actually start discussing it that the inherent flaws in the proposed ideas come out. (and that goes for some liberal sacred cows too) As always, grateful for Derby Trail-- I get horseracing education and can talk politics, too.

By the way, I was in favor of a sales tax for a while, too, until someone pointed out to me what a burden it would be on the poor. I hadn't thought about the cost of necessities as a portion of total income until then and how taxing purchased things would necessitate more of the poor's total income going towards taxes than the wealthy's. (The guy who explained it to me, by the way, is a self-made wealthy guy who very much favors graduated income tax with the rich paying more than the poor. So, yes, he was biased, but against his own financial interests, so go figure)

Well its not actually everyone pays the same. Its whoever consumes the most, pays the most. But the food clothes and gas part would really hurt. And clearly wealthy people consume more. But they can afford to, and 23% would not hurt them near as much.

And Z, 23% was what the study suggested would be needed based on current consumption, and current federal taxes.

If it had to be done, I would leave food and clothes off the list. Gas, I could live with. I rode the bus for a number of months when my car broke down.

Candy not considered a food. Make those kids eat fruit. Man that would really save some teeth. And then, what exactly is Candy... ? and the whole mess starts up again.

[Danzig]

i just wish they could simplify the fed tax system. all that paperwork, all the hourse spent filing. how hard is it to say i'm married, have two minor kids, what do i have to pay? and then pay it? how much money is spent on books, forms, 'help'(you ever call the irs 'help'line? not very helpful!), auditors...how much personnel do we pay to handle fed taxes???

Z your right I completely forgot about the meds... see the list of exemptions starts growing and the complexity increases exponentially as GR mentioned. What a mess. I hate doing taxes, my father left me some property that is not worth much money and it is such a pain in the rear. And then he had an IRA so I have to withdraw a certain amount out of that small IRA every year using a formula that accountants have a mess with...