CONTESSA: "..wanted to throw up"

Kasept · #1 01-12-2007, 10:47 AM

Not looking to reopen yesterday's volatile discussion of Dominguez' performance on Daytime Promise Thursday at Aqueduct, but I did just get off the phone with Gary Contessa...

The Q and A:

INSTRUCTIONS TO RAMON?
"She prefers to be outside horses anyway, so I told him to sit off and just make one run on the outside."

THOUGHTS DURING THE STRETCH RUN?
"I wanted to throw up.. It's the human side of the game. You do everything you can to prepare a horse and then you get one of the worst performances of the guy's career.. maybe THE worst."

WHAT DID HE SAY AFTER?
"He apologized over and over.. He said 'I can only tell you I'm sorry.'"

WHAT DID HE TELL YOU HE WAS THINKING?
"He said that when they came off the turn he was sure the rail horse was going to float wide and take the other one with him and that he would have the rail to boot home. He said the jock on the rail horse was using both hands to hold left on his horse as if the horse was trying to bear out so he thought the rail would open up."

kentuckyrosesinmay · #2 01-12-2007, 10:58 AM

Now that we have the riding instructions and the trainer comments, then I admit that Ramon made a bad decision.

However, what Ramon thought would happen about the hole opening up was what I said in the other thread that he thought would happen. He just made the wrong decision that didn't pay off this time. A lot of other times, it would have proven to be the right decision as a hole would have opened. If the hole would have opened, no one would have been complaining about his ride.

JJP · #3 01-12-2007, 11:01 AM

That ride was suspiciously bad. IMO, worse than what Ferrer did at Hawthorne last October.

paisjpq · #4 01-12-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

But the question remains why make it harder for yourself? Why not just go outside, as per Contessa's instructions? Why even try and make an inside run in a 5 horse field where 2 of the runners were already hopelessly beaten?

how about we consider the idea that Ramon was trying to look like hot sh*t and his plan backfired...and then he had to go cover his sorry ride with an angry trainer...whose instructions he failed to follow.
not too different than a child who makes a bad decision and then tries to lie to mom and dad...

kentuckyrosesinmay · #5 01-12-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

But the question remains why make it harder for yourself? Why not just go outside, as per Contessa's instructions? Why even try and make an inside run in a 5 horse field where 2 of the runners were already hopelessly beaten?

Since he disobeyed Contessa's instructions, then it was a bad ride. Again, if a hole would have opened up, it wouldn't have been considered a bad ride at all.

#6 01-12-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Since he disobeyed Contessa's instructions, then it was a bad ride. Again, if a hole would have opened up, it wouldn't have been considered a bad ride at all.

Go to the inside of two horses in a five horse field is ok?

kentuckyrosesinmay · #7 01-12-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Go to the inside of two horses in a five horse field is ok? What planet are you from?

It depends on what the trainer's instructions are, and how much horse the rider has.

#8 01-12-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

It depends on what the trainer's instructions are.

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

blackthroatedwind · #9 01-12-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

how about we consider the idea that Ramon was trying to look like hot sh*t and his plan backfired...and then he had to go cover his sorry ride with an angry trainer...whose instructions he failed to follow.
not too different than a child who makes a bad decision and then tries to lie to mom and dad...

Yup.

JJP · #10 01-12-2007, 11:21 AM

It tells me Ramon does not do his homework before the race. Any jock who's worth a damn has handicapped the race, knows where he should be early on, AND IS AWARE OF THE FIELD SIZE. For him to try to go inside horses in a 5 horse field is laughable. The ride was either corrupt, or just plain stupid.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #11 01-12-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

No, no one would have never known if it was or wasn't okay for Ramon to do what he did because the story wouldn't have blown up like it has. The only reason that we know it wasn't okay for him to do that in the first place is that a hole didn't open and he didn't win the race.

Sometimes, things happen in races and jockeys can't follow trainers instructions. However, I believe that they should try to follow them as closely as possible in any given race.

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

blackthroatedwind · #12 01-12-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Since he disobeyed Contessa's instructions, then it was a bad ride. Again, if a hole would have opened up, it wouldn't have been considered a bad ride at all.

This is just more incorrect posting...which coincides with your posts yesterday ( where you told us we had to stop bashing jockeys....even though the posts weren't " jockey bashing " at all but a correct analysis of a racing situation ).

Even if a hole had opened it was still a " bad ride " as he took an unnecessary chance for absolutely no reason whatsoever. There were two paths, one was completely clear outside and the other would have taken an occurance to work out and offered the possibility of something extremely detrimental happening. It was an absolute no-brainer and a his decision was so bad that it offers the hint of a possibility that he had motives other than winning the race. Yet, you not only chose to defend him, but you also chastised other posters for questioning his judgement.

Being too result oriented in life, but especially in horse racing, is a very poor thing to do. " Good rides " and " bad rides " are very often NOT defined by how the race works out. Many riders give terrific rides that go completely unnoticed because they simply were on too slow a horse. This you will surely agree with. However, many riders give poor rides that also go unnoticed for both similar reasons or because their mount was good enough to overcome it. For you to think this ride in any way could have been considered anything other than a " bad ride " is a total misread of the situation.

You say we shouldn't comment on jockeys if we haven't ridden a horse. I say, based on your opinions, your's aren't qualified simply because you have.

#13 01-12-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

Yeah and it's obvious from the replay Ramon didn't have enough horse.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #14 01-12-2007, 11:28 AM

I already admitted based on the trainer's commentary that Ramon made the wrong decision. However, you acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field. I just gave you examples of when it was okay to inform you on the matter.

#15 01-12-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I already admitted based on the trainer's commentary that Ramon made the wrong decision.

Why do you continue to push this subject with me?

Because you continue to want to try to start something with me because you don't like me for whatever reason?

...

Are you ok?

kentuckyrosesinmay · #16 01-12-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

...

Are you ok?

Yeah, why? It was just two simple questions that you're avoiding answering.

blackthroatedwind · #17 01-12-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I already admitted based on the trainer's commentary that Ramon made the wrong decision. However, you acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field. I just gave you examples of when it was okay to inform you on the matter.

This even more ridiculous. NOBODY " acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field ". We were commenting on a SPECIFIC SITUATION, in fact only you were making gross generalizations, and I think ( unlike you apparently ) we are well aware that all situations offer different possibilities.

You were wrong yesterday and are insisting on making it worse today. At least Ramon admitted his stupidity....without trying to blame others.

brianwspencer · #18 01-12-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

More importantly, I think you're missing one huge thing. The only basis for defending him that would hold ANY weight is the notion that were he trying to save ground if he didn't think he had a lot of horse on the turn, one could perhaps find a TINY space in their heart to cut him some slack.

You keep talking about saving ground, but they were on the straight. Simple geometry says that there is no ground to be "saved" on a straight stretch of racetrack.

Though I am not an expert horse rider, so that may impact my math and reasoning skills...

kentuckyrosesinmay · #19 01-12-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This even more ridiculous. NOBODY " acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field ". We were commenting on a SPECIFIC SITUATION, in fact only you were making gross generalizations, and I think ( unlike you apparently ) we are well aware that all situations offer different possibilities.

You were wrong yesterday and are insisting on making it worse today. At least Ramon admitted his stupidity....without trying to blame others.

Actually, Pillow Pants said "going to the inside of 2 horses in a five horse field is okay?" I gave him examples where it was okay to do so.

I admitted that I was wrong, but I didn't know I was wrong yesterday because I didn't know the trainer's instructions, hadn't seen the trainer's and rider's commentary, and didn't know this particular horse's tendencies.

And another thing is that I wasn't making gross generalizations yesterday too. If you want to play that game, you were making gross generalizations when you didn't even know the trainer's instructions or the horse's tendencies. I even admitted in the thread yesterday in response to 2MINSTOPOST that he may be right and that my outlook may be wrong.

Also, I was saying that people needed to stop bashing jockeys as a whole, and those I am talking about know who they are. I was also referring to other threads over the past few days when I was talking about that. Also, I didn't try to chatise anyone, and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.

And I'm not blaming others. Where I am I blaming others? Show me.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #20 01-12-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

More importantly, I think you're missing one huge thing. The only basis for defending him that would hold ANY weight is the notion that were he trying to save ground if he didn't think he had a lot of horse on the turn, one could perhaps find a TINY space in their heart to cut him some slack.

You keep talking about saving ground, but they were on the straight. Simple geometry says that there is no ground to be "saved" on a straight stretch of racetrack.

Though I am not an expert horse rider, so that may impact my math and reasoning skills...

I wasn't talking about Ramon's ride when I posted that. I was talking about, in general, when a jockey needs to go to the inside in a race.