some thoughts on poly after running over it

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

i am all for making it safer for the animals and i have defended poly on here in the past but i dont like the way the surface is now at turfway as opposed to last year. way too fast this year as evident by the times. 5000 claimers goin 111 over it. last year my trainer ran a horse there for 13.5 and he won and was given a very nice fig for the race, final time for 3 quarters.....114. we ran a filly over it this past saturday and she didnt like it whatsoever and was breathin funny afterwards when cooling out. one thing everybody does there is spray their horses feet with pam(cooking spray) or wd-40 to prevent it from balling up in their feet. i dont understand the fascination with tracks being lightining fast, lol i suppose faster times are gonna draw more fans to the game. the jock who we brought down to ride from here likes the surface

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

i am all for making it safer for the animals and i have defended poly on here in the past but i dont like the way the surface is now at turfway as opposed to last year. way too fast this year as evident by the times. 5000 claimers goin 111 over it. last year my trainer ran a horse there for 13.5 and he won and was given a very nice fig for the race, final time for 3 quarters.....114. we ran a filly over it this past saturday and she didnt like it whatsoever and was breathin funny afterwards when cooling out. one thing everybody does there is spray their horses feet with pam(cooking spray) or wd-40 to prevent it from balling up in their feet. i dont understand the fascination with tracks being lightining fast, lol i suppose faster times are gonna draw more fans to the game. the jock who we brought down to ride from here likes the surface

I have to agree that the track is too fast. I am very unhappy with the surface this winter meet at Turfway vs last year. The track is so fast that you cannot get a good gage on your horse. Another downfall to Poly is that the track maintenance people cannot "fix" the track as easily as they could when it was dirt.

[cmorioles]

I'm pretty sure they have to add more moisture to keep the kickback down, which in turn is leading to the faster times.

[todko]

Went to Polyway twice last week (Wednesday and Friday). The kickback is terrible. It's not quite as dusty as last year but it clots like hell. I saw horses 5-6 lenghts back just getting pounded by the clots/clumps of poly. The clots hit the horse and explode like smoke grenades. If you have TVG watch the top of the safety rail -- you can see the clumps of poly landing all over it.

I thought they had made some progress with the new mix (addition of spandex) but in cooler weather the track is a mess.

I routinely see horses come back that are agitated by the track -- snorting excessively. This has been going on since they installed the track. I brought up questions to Turfway management before the first race was ever run on that garbage. A blind man could see that there was going to be kickback issues. They won't address the issues and the racing press is no help either.

I just hope for a wicked winter here. The drainage system won't hold up. Water will pool under the track and freeze. So far they have lucked out and the track hasn't had a true winter test.

And by the way they canceled on Sunday. A mere 2 inches of snow and they canceled. Used the excuse that the "roads were bad". The roads couldn't have been too bad because they kept the simulcast open. And when the track was dirt they never canceled due to "bad roads". It's just a big cover up because the track has serious issues with winter weather. Real winter weather.

[Cannon Shell]

I have no problem with the track from a training/racing point of view.
The "old" track was disgraceful.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by todko

And by the way they canceled on Sunday. A mere 2 inches of snow and they canceled. Used the excuse that the "roads were bad". The roads couldn't have been too bad because they kept the simulcast open. And when the track was dirt they never canceled due to "bad roads". It's just a big cover up because the track has serious issues with winter weather. Real winter weather.

The old track used to freeze and thaw causing the track to be closed for training half the time during the winter and losing 2 weeks of races every winter.

[todko]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The old track used to freeze and thaw causing the track to be closed for training half the time during the winter and losing 2 weeks of races every winter.

I know -- and they have trumpeted poly as the reason they didn't close last year (except for 1 day when they mysteriously blamed the roads for that closure also). They didn't have the honesty to admit that last year was an unseasonably mild winter that would have allowed the track to stay open even if they kept the dirt surface. The warm weather was not mentioned at all. Same as this year.

Give it a harsh winter -- and then tell me it handles winter weather. So far on even mild snow days they close and then blame the roads. They can't really plow the snow off the poly as easily as they did with the dirt. Again, if that drainage system freezes and fails they are going to have serious issues with horses hitting a frozen bottom. They won't know it until they run.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Playa,you hang around with almost all mules.I would think it would be pretty tough to make an assessment of a surface when you don't have any good horses to try on it.Seems to me,when they had dirt, they used to be closed like an average of every other day there(in the Winter.)We will see whether they have to do anywhere near that with this stuff.I think it is silly to say dirt was better.This stuff may not be what they want (in the end,)but it is better than dirt.You can talk all you want about this topic,but it comes down to whether horses are being entered.When they consistently get 11,12,14,14 horses entered,then you look kind of silly complaining about a surface.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by todko

I know -- and they have trumpeted poly as the reason they didn't close last year (except for 1 day when they mysteriously blamed the roads for that closure also). They didn't have the honesty to admit that last year was an unseasonably mild winter that would have allowed the track to stay open even if they kept the dirt surface. The warm weather was not mentioned at all. Same as this year.

Give it a harsh winter -- and then tell me it handles winter weather. So far on even mild snow days they close and then blame the roads. They can't really plow the snow off the poly as easily as they did with the dirt. Again, if that drainage system freezes and fails they are going to have serious issues with horses hitting a frozen bottom. They won't know it until they run.

That would be like the Bears saying " you know we really did not play very well yesterday but the saints were awful so we won but we really dont know if we are good but we are lucky"
Maybe all those things that you said will happen if there is a really harsh winter but then again regular dirt would not be any better would it? As a matter of fact the other 10 months out of the year polytrack will be better than Turfways old surface which was awful regardless of the weather.

The track was open to training and gallops. Turfway wanted to race. They closed racing because several horses that were racing that day and shipping that day couldnt make it to the races. They cancelled because the horseman wanted to, not because of the track.

[outofthebox]

Something similar happened a few years back when i was working in Ky. The vans that were travelling from Louisville to Turfway couldnt make it to the races because of bad road conditions. So they cancelled that evenings program..

They have done that a couple of times the past few years. They also go by what the predicted weather might be as well. I guess they had some snow and there were suppose to be some ice too. Who knows....but I know the track was fine.

[todko]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

They have done that a couple of times the past few years. They also go by what the predicted weather might be as well. I guess they had some snow and there were suppose to be some ice too. Who knows....but I know the track was fine.

Euro, when the track was dirt I was there and they were racing when the damn sidewalks at the track were sheets of ice. They didn't cancel due to road conditions. They would use a tractor and bulldoze the snow and dirt under the inner rail and race. The only time they canceled was when they couldn't scrape enough dirt off to eliminate the freeze.

Like I said, they've just been lucky -- wait until they see about 1-2 feet of snow on the poly. Tough to scrape the poly without pulling up all the carpet fibers and shards of spandex underwear along with the snow.

Originally Posted by todko

Euro, when the track was dirt I was there and they were racing when the damn sidewalks at the track were sheets of ice. They didn't cancel due to road conditions. They would use a tractor and bulldoze the snow and dirt under the inner rail and race. The only time they canceled was when they couldn't scrape enough dirt off to eliminate the freeze.

Like I said, they've just been lucky -- wait until they see about 1-2 feet of snow on the poly. Tough to scrape the poly without pulling up all the carpet fibers and shards of spandex underwear along with the snow.

I have been there as well when the weather around turfway was horrible. But you have to remember that they have horses that ship in from Louisville, Columbus, Anderson etc etc. The weather up north from Turfway was rather bad (from what I heard). Both of my horses worked on Sunday and the track was absolutely perfect. I am like you in the sense that I want to see what happens when there is a couple of inches of snow covering the track.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Playa,you hang around with almost all mules.I would think it would be pretty tough to make an assessment of a surface when you don't have any good horses to try on it.Seems to me,when they had dirt, they used to be closed like an average of every other day there(in the Winter.)We will see whether they have to do anywhere near that with this stuff.I think it is silly to say dirt was better.This stuff may not be what they want (in the end,)but it is better than dirt.You can talk all you want about this topic,but it comes down to whether horses are being entered.When they consistently get 11,12,14,14 horses entered,then you look kind of silly complaining about a surface.

LOL nice AHOLE remark there scuds, but nice of you to make it without even knowing what horses we have in the barn. i guess these 2 are"mules" too huh

GAMBLERS PRIZE (USA) dkb/br. G, 2002 DP = 3-3-4-0-0 (10) DI = 4.00 CD = 0.90 - 16 Starts, 6 Wins, 1 Places, 3 Shows Career Earnings: 92,546
Breeder: R. Otto Stables Inc.
State Bred: IL
Winnings: 16 Starts: 6 - 1 - 3, 92,546

DANCEFORTYNINER (USA) b. C, 2001 DP = 9-1-8-1-1 (20) DI = 2.33 CD = 0.80 - 18 Starts, 4 Wins, 3 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $98,100

Breeder: Thomas L. Nicholas
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 18 Starts: 4 - 3 - 1, $98,100

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

LOL nice AHOLE remark there scuds, but nice of you to make it without even knowing what horses we have in the barn. i guess these 2 are"mules" too huh

GAMBLERS PRIZE (USA) dkb/br. G, 2002 DP = 3-3-4-0-0 (10) DI = 4.00 CD = 0.90 - 16 Starts, 6 Wins, 1 Places, 3 Shows Career Earnings: 92,546
Breeder: R. Otto Stables Inc.
State Bred: IL
Winnings: 16 Starts: 6 - 1 - 3, 92,546

DANCEFORTYNINER (USA) b. C, 2001 DP = 9-1-8-1-1 (20) DI = 2.33 CD = 0.80 - 18 Starts, 4 Wins, 3 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $98,100

Breeder: Thomas L. Nicholas
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 18 Starts: 4 - 3 - 1, $98,100

I would like to purchase one of your mules.

[sumitas]

Poly will only get better over time.

[AeWingnut]

Turfway doesn't have near the kickback that Woodbine does. It probably has everything to do with the temps. I can remember seeing climps the size of small children being kicked up at Woodbne. The cloud that was kicked up was ridiculous. No one knows how poly in the lungs will effect the horses or the people. 20 - 30 years from now is everyone going to have some form of asbestosis. I know the track isn't made out of asbestos.

The old surface was terrible but you could pick up on some crazy bias action. There were races where everything on the outside would win. 10-1 or 99-1 didn't matter. I think you are still dead meat if you stay on the rail but it isn't as pronounced.

I know the guy from Mounaineer absolutely hates poly track. I think he loves that dirt tracks can be massaged to give someone an edge. There are days at Mountaineer that the #1 horse wins 75% of the races. (I know the BC but I thought those were the best horses too)

all in all if it is safer then I am for it. No reason to risk life and limb for a dinky Turfway purse

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

LOL nice AHOLE remark there scuds, but nice of you to make it without even knowing what horses we have in the barn. i guess these 2 are"mules" too huh

GAMBLERS PRIZE (USA) dkb/br. G, 2002 DP = 3-3-4-0-0 (10) DI = 4.00 CD = 0.90 - 16 Starts, 6 Wins, 1 Places, 3 Shows Career Earnings: 92,546
Breeder: R. Otto Stables Inc.
State Bred: IL
Winnings: 16 Starts: 6 - 1 - 3, 92,546

DANCEFORTYNINER (USA) b. C, 2001 DP = 9-1-8-1-1 (20) DI = 2.33 CD = 0.80 - 18 Starts, 4 Wins, 3 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $98,100

Breeder: Thomas L. Nicholas
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 18 Starts: 4 - 3 - 1, $98,100

Why you giving me names of horses that last raced in JAN 2006,and Sept 2005? This mule you ran Saturday night is pretty typical.She won at Arlington for somebody.Then lays up 4 months n' runs 7th by 17 lengths.Then you guys get her(who wouldn't want her then right? duh),and she loses by almost 9 lengths.You run her for the same tag (with Nick Meza,)and she can't compete,Big surprise.Drop to 5k.Then complain about a track surface.All I am saying is how can you tell anything about a track surface when you test it with a pet mule.Doesn't make sense.

[The Bid]

Woodbines track is a joke, and TWP has been lucky to have a mild winter.