Cold/Wind KO's Aqueduct again Wednesday

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Why don't you pull yourself up and stop with the blather? I don't have time to go point by point through the hysterical, scattershot suggestions/recriminations, but the right answer to scenarios like this are horses go wrong for countless reasons and instantaneous conclusions/demands/calls to action are utterly pointless and 100% useless.

Extended periods of racing without incident and spikes in breakdowns happen. The long term oversight put in place by NYRA after the Injury Task Force considered the 2012 incident spate have been recognized as very effective. If you want to stop breakdowns, end the sport. Otherwise, be prepared for these Edvard Munch moments of feigned outrage and horror to continue.

[Big Peps]

I just don't see why every breakdown seems to go back to the trainer and said owner for using that trainer. Some horses can come out of races and be ready to run quicker than others, just seems crazy that if a claimed horse breaks down, it's always the trainer's fault for running back to quickly or they should have known and then the owner's fault for employing said trainer. It's a bit much and really a shotgun approach.

It happens and is extremely unfortunate.

[Arletta]

Aqueduct to proceed with caution.


http://sdhorserace.com/2015/01/13/aq...of-breakdowns/

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Big Peps

I just don't see why every breakdown seems to go back to the trainer and said owner for using that trainer. Some horses can come out of races and be ready to run quicker than others, just seems crazy that if a claimed horse breaks down, it's always the trainer's fault for running back to quickly or they should have known and then the owner's fault for employing said trainer. It's a bit much and really a shotgun approach.

It happens and is extremely unfortunate.

i don't think anyone thinks it's always the trainers fault. however, we all know there are times that trainers enter a horse for a tag, hoping to get rid of said horse. they hope for the best, that it makes it thru the race and someone takes it off their hands so they can get rid of the issue.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think anyone thinks it's always the trainers fault. however, we all know there are times that trainers enter a horse for a tag, hoping to get rid of said horse. they hope for the best, that it makes it thru the race and someone takes it off their hands so they can get rid of the issue.

And sometimes it's too obvious. A turf race where the horse uncharacteristically fades, One work at Palm Beach Downs (obviously pointed to something @ GP), a ship up to Ocala for a rehab stint off that work (presumably), followed by a drop to the lowest level at Tampa - all in the space of 60 days:

A horse routinely handling conditioned 40K runners in NY 60 days ago, dropping to 8N3L. At Tampa.






Like you said, hope for the best

[ateamstupid]

I'll never forget, there was a Paul Pompa horse named Basilone, who was bought for six figures. He entered him for $12,500 in his debut at GP, caught an unusually strong field and ran 2nd with a BSF in the high 70's, then was shipped to Tampa to run for $8,000 in his next start.

The horse broke down and it was just as predictable as it was appalling.

IMO when it's that obvious an owner/trainer is trying to get rid of a horse, someone at the track should intervene and subject the horse to much more than just the regular pre-race look from the vet. Basilone didn't deserve to die just because Pompa made a lousy investment.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'll never forget, there was a Paul Pompa horse named Basilone, who was bought for six figures. He entered him for $12,500 in his debut at GP, caught an unusually strong field and ran 2nd with a BSF in the high 70's, then was shipped to Tampa to run for $8,000 in his next start.

The horse broke down and it was just as predictable as it was appalling.

IMO when it's that obvious an owner/trainer is trying to get rid of a horse, someone at the track should intervene and subject the horse to much more than just the regular pre-race look from the vet. Basilone didn't deserve to die just because Pompa made a lousy investment.

burna dette is the one i will always remember.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Apologies as my post was not to derail the topic, but rather make the point.

TBD will answer for the breakdowns on their track. It appears to me that I've seen more at this point in the season than I've seen in the past.

And that is meaningless - its part of the game. Sometimes they go through the meet with minimal instances; other times it's more noticeable.

But it isn't the track, or the people, or the horses, or any *one* thing. Sometimes they take a bad step - it's that simple.


It should be though, the responsibility of the track to pull out a fine-toothed comb when a red flag shows up in their entry box.

[Big Peps]

Originally Posted by Big Peps

I just don't see why every breakdown seems to go back to the trainer and said owner for using that trainer. Some horses can come out of races and be ready to run quicker than others, just seems crazy that if a claimed horse breaks down, it's always the trainer's fault for running back to quickly or they should have known and then the owner's fault for employing said trainer. It's a bit much and really a shotgun approach.

It happens and is extremely unfortunate.

Can't disagree with you there but significant drops can also just be a shot by owner/ trainer to win a race and to also mitigate losses. There is a place for that in the game as well. It will happen, but I agree that when it does happen those that claim said horses are always a bit leary.

Can also happen at the smaller tracks like a Finger Lakes when running a decent turf horse on dirt which isn't said horses preferred surface towards the end of the meet, say November December time frame. Your left with a decision on what to do with that turf horse, ship down South for the winter, lay up for the winter, or drop on the dirt and try to win a race, earn the money and then lay up until spring and pay for lay up with the purse earnings. You play to win the game within reason

[ateamstupid]

Canceled again today due to frozen patches on the track.

[ScottJ]

Originally Posted by Steve Byk Twitter Publication

This NEVER used to happen in New York.. Got it? EVER. Well.. Except for 1994 when 14 of the first 51 days cancelled.. But otherwise, NEVER!

Completely agreed. Coming back to our discussion from earlier this week, the inner track racing surface will remain a point of very close scrutiny, particularly after the horsemen's statement and the subsequent meetings.

Hopefully, we will not get rain with the temporary warming expected this weekend - if the surface has frozen spots, you can be sure that the surface will get really loose with thawing and we will have problems with unsafe conditions involving the base.

I acknowledge that my views were clearly in the minority regarding trainer statements earlier this week. Yet despite being in the minority, the number of posters who have cited tremendous claiming dropdowns as an indication that something must be amiss with the horse should be noted. Wait, something amiss with the horse? Certainly, I do not have the experience to differentiate an "ouchy" animal from one who will be a danger to others on the far turn, but there seems to be a tacit acceptance that horses are wildly dropped for a reason. To me, that is a trainer and owner flag. This has been a well-known handicapping "angle", but it points to, well, something potentially wrong.

While the claiming game can be a wide open free-for-all, since the 2012 Report called for a upper clamp placed on claiming purses tied to claiming price, should we implement a downward limit on the amount of a dropdown on the claiming ladder? Perhaps a limit of a 50% claiming price slash? No more than two claiming classes at the home track?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ScottJ

Completely agreed. Coming back to our discussion from earlier this week, the inner track racing surface will remain a point of very close scrutiny, particularly after the horsemen's statement and the subsequent meetings.

Hopefully, we will not get rain with the temporary warming expected this weekend - if the surface has frozen spots, you can be sure that the surface will get really loose with thawing and we will have problems with unsafe conditions involving the base.

I acknowledge that my views were clearly in the minority regarding trainer statements earlier this week. Yet despite being in the minority, the number of posters who have cited tremendous claiming dropdowns as an indication that something must be amiss with the horse should be noted. Wait, something amiss with the horse? Certainly, I do not have the experience to differentiate an "ouchy" animal from one who will be a danger to others on the far turn, but there seems to be a tacit acceptance that horses are wildly dropped for a reason. To me, that is a trainer and owner flag. This has been a well-known handicapping "angle", but it points to, well, something potentially wrong.

While the claiming game can be a wide open free-for-all, since the 2012 Report called for a upper clamp placed on claiming purses tied to claiming price, should we implement a downward limit on the amount of a dropdown on the claiming ladder? Perhaps a limit of a 50% claiming price slash? No more than two claiming classes at the home track?

i don't think there's a tacit acceptance. no one thinks a horse should be run if unsound. a trainer shouldn't risk a horse, along with the safety of riders and other horses, just because they want rid of a horse.
perhaps a steep drop should necessitate a thorough exam by a vet before they let the horse in the gate.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

And sometimes it's too obvious. A turf race where the horse uncharacteristically fades, One work at Palm Beach Downs (obviously pointed to something @ GP), a ship up to Ocala for a rehab stint off that work (presumably), followed by a drop to the lowest level at Tampa - all in the space of 60 days:

A horse routinely handling conditioned 40K runners in NY 60 days ago, dropping to 8N3L. At Tampa.



http://i57.tinypic.com/2ihr0bt.png


Like you said, hope for the best

Ran a well beaten 6th, and was claimed.