playoffs start in round 2

[RockHardTen1985]

I love OKC tonight. Moneyline and plus 4.5 to b/u.

[King Glorious]

I think we might have witnessed a transformation tonight. Even though James missed the game winning shot at the end of regulation tonight, just the fact that he took the shot was big. Not only that he took the shot but the way he went out and demanded the ball after he got that offensive rebound. I'm ok with him missing. All players miss more in that situation than they make, even Jordan and Bryant. I just liked the way he ran out to the perimeter and called for the ball and didn't shy away from the moment the way he has so often in the last couple of years. I think that was huge. It reminded me of that moment some years ago when Isiah Thomas told his teammates that he was taking the shot, period, and that either they would win or lose and it would be on him but he was taking it.

[RockHardTen1985]

He's the best basketball player in the world and the best talent ever. He needs to start making that shot and winning titles to validate it all.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

He's the best basketball player in the world and the best talent ever. He needs to start making that shot and winning titles to validate it all.

I don't think he does. I think validation comes in the course of 48 minute games, 82 games a year. Best talent ever? I don't agree with that either. The most physically gifted and best in the world currently? Without a doubt. I just don't feel that championships are as necessary as others do to validate anything. Did Oscar Robertson's career become validated when he finally won a title (at age 32, in his 11th year and only after being traded to Milwaukee and playing with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar)? Did Jerry West's career become validated when he finally won a title (at age 33, in his 12th year and only after Wilt was traded to play with him in LA)? Was Kevin Garnett somehow a better player when he finally won a few years ago than he was in his prime in Minnesota?

This year, I think that San Antonio is better than Miami and OKC might be too. James can get 35-10-10 every night and could still lose. It wouldn't lessen his play.

Here are two guys that won three MVP's each and their cumulative numbers for those three seasons:

Player 1................................................. .....Player 2
241.........................games................. .........219
38.6......................minute/game..................38.1
20.4....................attempts/game................19.7
.504...........................fg%................ ...........505
1.7.........................3pt att/game..................4.2
.392.........................3pt %..........................342
5.7...........................ft att/game...................9.3
.889..........................ft %............................773
2.2.........................off rebounds....................1.2
7.9.........................def rebounds...................6.3
10.1..........................rebounds............ ..........7.6
6.7............................assists............ ..............7.4
1.82...........................steals............. .............1.72
0.90...........................blocks............. ............1.00
3.1...........................turnovers........... ...........3.3
26.2..........................points.............. ............28.5

The numbers are very similar I think. Do you know who the two guys are?

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think he does. I think validation comes in the course of 48 minute games, 82 games a year. Best talent ever? I don't agree with that either. The most physically gifted and best in the world currently? Without a doubt. I just don't feel that championships are as necessary as others do to validate anything. Did Oscar Robertson's career become validated when he finally won a title (at age 32, in his 11th year and only after being traded to Milwaukee and playing with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar)? Did Jerry West's career become validated when he finally won a title (at age 33, in his 12th year and only after Wilt was traded to play with him in LA)? Was Kevin Garnett somehow a better player when he finally won a few years ago than he was in his prime in Minnesota?

Did Oscar and Jerry have even 1% of the hype and virtual deep throating the media and fans gave LeBron before he entered the league?

Nah.

Feel free to include him with the greats but don't try and say his situation isn't different from those guys...who seem to be decent guys and don't immediately start premature ejaculating when a camera is in their face.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Did Oscar and Jerry have even 1% of the hype and virtual deep throating the media and fans gave LeBron before he entered the league?

Nah.

Feel free to include him with the greats but don't try and say his situation isn't different from those guys...who seem to be decent guys and don't immediately start premature ejaculating when a camera is in their face.

That's not fair at all. Media coverage back then was nothing at all like it is now. There was no Twitter, Facebook, Myspace, etc. There wasn't sports talk radio like it is now. There was no "Around the Horn" or "First Take" or any number of the shows ESPN has on seemingly around the clock. Hell, there was no ESPN at all. No NBAtv. It's impossible to compare the two eras.

The other thing is, just as a horse doesn't run any better if the public bets him to 3/5 than he would if he was 10/1, LeBron's abilities and performance level doesn't rise or fall based on the media or the fans. I can start a blog saying that Robert Griffin is going to be the best quarterback in history and break every passing record. My blog won't make him play any better. Mike Krzyzewski once said "never let your success or failure be defined by someone else's expectations." Whether the media and fans fawn all over James or they never say another word about him, that doesn't have anything to do with how good or bad he is.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That's not fair at all. Media coverage back then was nothing at all like it is now. There was no Twitter, Facebook, Myspace, etc. There wasn't sports talk radio like it is now. There was no "Around the Horn" or "First Take" or any number of the shows ESPN has on seemingly around the clock. Hell, there was no ESPN at all. No NBAtv. It's impossible to compare the two eras.

The other thing is, just as a horse doesn't run any better if the public bets him to 3/5 than he would if he was 10/1, LeBron's abilities and performance level doesn't rise or fall based on the media or the fans. I can start a blog saying that Robert Griffin is going to be the best quarterback in history and break every passing record. My blog won't make him play any better. Mike Krzyzewski once said "never let your success or failure be defined by someone else's expectations." Whether the media and fans fawn all over James or they never say another word about him, that doesn't have anything to do with how good or bad he is.

You want to talk about fairness when you're pretty much completely discrediting team championships having any relation to individual greatness.

I mean fine. You've got a few others on here who agree with you that LeBron is great. He's a phenomenal athlete and that's been apparent since he was a kid. I don't deny that. BUT...he is not a great professional basketball player yet. In my opinion he doesn't have the credentials to be included as of this point. Can he? Of course.

Will he? I seriously doubt it. He's proven time and time again to fold when it matters most. And maybe I'm on a different f.ucking planet than the rest of you but championships matter. Whether it's team or individual.

Nobody outside of swim fans know who the f.uck Ryan Lochte is. Broke Phelps' world record in the 200 I.M. Don't really mean s.hit though unless he does it in London.

Done.